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Old 01-02-2008, 02:38 PM   #41
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I just love seeing pictures of NB miatas with two PC-Pros hanging off the dash, wired by Tom himself. That's close to a $1000 investment for a POS solution.


There are also 5 more wires coming off a pc-pro than a basic MS, and the basic MS can do twice as much at half the cost
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Old 01-02-2008, 03:43 PM   #42
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and I know at least one person in the CA Bay Area (eBoi on M.net) whose FFS car produces 30whp less than advertised. I've driven it. It's weak.
i hope its the AFRs or im gonna send him a WTF.

oh, and i love how im required to pay $500 for a pc-pro to get a CARB sticker. **** that ****.
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Old 01-02-2008, 03:54 PM   #43
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superchargers belong on higher displacement engines.
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Old 01-02-2008, 04:17 PM   #44
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superchargers belong on higher displacement engines.
Actually, a positive-displacement supercharger is about the perfect torque-adder for a small-displacement engine.

It's just that aftermarket supercharger kits in the Miata world are all over the map in terms of engine management used.
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Old 01-02-2008, 04:39 PM   #45
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And there you have it. Gary says that sponsors don't get special treatment, and therefore it must be so.
Ah, sure.... whatever..... Then why did another FM thread get deleted over the weekend? Gary likes the bottom line.
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Old 01-02-2008, 04:56 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
I just love seeing pictures of NB miatas with two PC-Pros hanging off the dash, wired by Tom himself. That's close to a $1000 investment for a POS solution.


There are also 5 more wires coming off a pc-pro than a basic MS, and the basic MS can do twice as much at half the cost
Haha. You forget about the new ignition timing card - the new ultimate answer in the engine management world - the one Joe Perez argued about on m.net

Now people will have to shell a bunch of $$$ to end up with laughable solution like two PC-Pro plus ignition box hanging off the dash ...

I suggested offering 4 ignition boxes kit, then they will have individual cylinder ignition trims (option which many standalones offer).

Can you imagine that? Someone with two PC-Pro and four ignition controllers hanging off the dash ...
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Old 01-02-2008, 05:04 PM   #47
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Ah, sure.... whatever..... Then why did another FM thread get deleted over the weekend? Gary likes the bottom line.
Stephanie
I don't understand why FM is the only sponsor that gets all this "special" treatment.
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Old 01-02-2008, 05:09 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by j_man View Post
Haha. You forget about the new ignition timing card - the new ultimate answer in the engine management world - the one Joe Perez argued about on m.net

Now people will have to shell a bunch of $$$ to end up with laughable solution like two PC-Pro plus ignition box hanging off the dash ...

I suggested offering 4 ignition boxes kit, then they will have individual cylinder ignition trims (option which many standalones offer).

Can you imagine that? Someone with two PC-Pro and four ignition controllers hanging off the dash ...
don't forget that it pulls time based upon rpm...lol.
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Old 01-02-2008, 05:10 PM   #49
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I don't understand why FM is the only sponsor that gets all this "special" treatment.
$$$

I'm so tired of people jocking **** for no reason.
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Old 01-02-2008, 05:19 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by Savington View Post
Anywhere you see a reference to "Fuel Injectors are not Intercoolers" is a personal rag on him, because he really does believe that his fifth injector setups qualify as intercooling. His kits are (allegedly, since there are a bunch of explanations for this) responsible for blowing several motors up, and I know at least one person in the CA Bay Area (eBoi on M.net) whose FFS car produces 30whp less than advertised. I've driven it. It's weak.

As far as his "honesty" goes, didn't he used to push a competing product as the new hot thing, and after his hookup with Moss he switched over to the MP62 as the new hot ****? Didn't Keith call him on this in the duck thread?
So thats where it came from. Damn though, all of this materialized in a years time is pretty ridiculous.

Got any links to these threads with blown engines and people crawling up his *** over his cooling methods?


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Originally Posted by whaaamx5 View Post
haha, yeah thats before a bunch of his kits started failing and motors startes blowing up due to failure to provide adequate tuning support to his clients and just slapping another PcPro to the equation, lols

Oh jesus. To think I almost bought one, good thing I didnt have the money. I spoke to him numerous times via PM and he was always a pretty cool, courteous and helpful guy. It saddens me to hear this, but hey I guess everyone turns eventually.
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Old 01-02-2008, 05:22 PM   #51
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don't forget that it pulls time based upon rpm...lol.
upon rpm is ok, but programmed to not do it over load too is
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Old 01-02-2008, 05:32 PM   #52
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I spoke to him numerous times via PM and he was always a pretty cool, courteous and helpful guy. It saddens me to hear this, but hey I guess everyone turns eventually.
i agree. at least he still provides tech support even though the kit i bought is used for 2gs
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Old 01-02-2008, 06:41 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by whaaamx5 View Post
haha, yeah thats before a bunch of his kits started failing and motors startes blowing up due to failure to provide adequate tuning support to his clients and just slapping another PcPro to the equation, lols
You are, of course, wrong. The failures were on the part of the owners or tuners to ask for assistance. If you take a BEGI kit, at 8psi. and bump it up to 13psi on Cal 91 oct. gas and fail to retard the timing it will eventually go POP! Is that the fault of BEGI? I am guilty of this scenario and take the blame happily because I'm not looking for a whipping boy. Got to give SAV props for using the phrase "alledgedly" because that is where the truth lies. Tell me Whaaam when the solution for an improperly tuned car was ever adding another Pc-pro to the existing kit? Be specific. Who's car?

I visit this forum everyday and I know that a bunch of members have fun ragging on other people. The stupidist Mnet post threads are an example, but in this case it is you who are posting unfounded stupid **** just to fit in with this group. I have no issue with Ben or Brain arguing EMU theory with Tom or Bill, but your "facts" are nonexistant. So let's leave out the guy who had his car tuned by "pros" at 13.8 AFR under boost, and the guy who slapped on an oversized pulley and went to the track without a dyno run or wideband, and me who you already know about. Which specific kits failed? And who else's motor failed? Once again, be specific.
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Old 01-02-2008, 07:02 PM   #54
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this one is famous:

http://www.fastforwardsuperchargers....=8993#post8993

tom himself killed it after 148 lean dyno pulls with no ignition retard, then blamed the JDM motor iirc.


look how well the pc-pro works!
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Old 01-02-2008, 07:24 PM   #55
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I have personally convinced two people who were seriously considering an FFS kit to give BEGi a call. One of them heard the words "fifth injector" and was done with FFS immediately.
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Old 01-02-2008, 07:24 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
this one is famous:

http://www.fastforwardsuperchargers....=8993#post8993

tom himself killed it after 148 lean dyno pulls with no ignition retard, then blamed the JDM motor iirc.


look how well the pc-pro works!
Well are you surprised? Look at the fuel curve!

Btw, heres our M45 PC-Pro Powered miata:


Nice to see it doesn't start to adjust the fuel until 4000rpm. If the engine was running at full compression I'd be severely worried.
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Old 01-02-2008, 07:25 PM   #57
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OK, 1 prototype kit (1st 1.6), and I agree that the timing was something that needed to be addressed. Now I'm waiting for Whaaam to tell us about the other "bunch".
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Old 01-02-2008, 07:35 PM   #58
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Pat, you and I both know there were several FFS equipped motor failures last year.

You and I also both know that the dyno chart posted here shows a car running richer than 10:1. It's also public knowledge that this car took 150 pulls on a dyno to create this tune, where it was subject to 15 psi, no charge cooling, and no provision for timing control. Furthermore, it's public knowledge that this car rolled of the dyno with a failed motor.

How can you not see gross negligence on behalf of FFS and its chief officer?

Remember, the first failed motor was due to the BEGi AFPR. The second failed motor is due to uhm, yeah, huh, geez, it must have been a bad motor to start with
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Old 01-02-2008, 07:42 PM   #59
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Sorry, I have to recant some of the previous post. I confused the dyno chart posted here with elphaba's chart on the FFS website. It's actually looks like the motor was underfueled at higher rpm, not overfueled. That's because the fueling system was beyond capacity.

I stand behind the rest of my post though.
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Old 01-02-2008, 09:27 PM   #60
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For the most part I will stay out of the discussion on FFS, Pc-Pro. M-Net etc. However, I will give my experience.

IMO I spent too much money with BRP for my hotside and significantly more upgrading the ELF to a PC-Pro and other items. Overall things worked fine, but my SO was tired of me molesting her car. Consequently the whole works is being removed from her car and is being sold at less than half what I have into it with only 5k miles on the kit. The Pc-Pro worked fine for what it is and the dyno showed the fueling was fine. However, my research has shown (IMHO) there are better options for the money.

I was fortunate enough to pick up a '94 with Corky's MOAB for a fair price and will still have a SC car to play with. Currently the car has an AFPR in it and I do not want that for fueling anymore than I want to stick with the Pc-Pro. My plan for this car this spring is bigger injectors and a MegaSquirt. I now want as much power as can get for the $$$.

I feel the Pc-Pro is fine for those who want an easy solution and are not concerned about maximum power or value for the dollar. I simply no longer fall into that catagory.
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