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Old 01-30-2008, 08:05 PM   #1
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Dude names snakebit over at m.newt recently resurrected an old thread entitled "Has anybody ever dealt with FFS" to say:
Quote:
The SC has run flawlessly. Dyno showed 194 whp on my 99, just as advertised. Car idles better and gets better gas mileage than stock when I don't get into the boost much (like on a long highway trip).
(my emphasis)

Without passing judgment on Tom, the PcPro, or his Supercharger kits, how does adding parasitic drag improve efficiency?
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Old 01-30-2008, 08:19 PM   #2
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It doesn't turbos have been known to improve this but not SC's
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Old 01-30-2008, 08:39 PM   #3
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It's no use posting such threads here Joe, there's too much resistance to new ideas. Such arrogance and ignorance seem to be prevalent. These attitudes regarding product superiority (or inferiority) resulted in failure of the American auto industry in the 70's, failure of IBM and mainframe computers in the 80's, as well as the meltdown of Apple in the 90's ... the list goes on.

Hopefully, newbies looking for an SC will find Tom's site and explore this forum for information.
I for one would hate to see FFS lose business or restrict service because of lost market share. It might be worthwhile for FFS' satisfied customers to start a network to welcome interested parties. I already take interested parties for rides and they are mostly amazed at what an SC does to the normally anemic Miata. I'm putting out between 170-190whp from my modified JRSC and I can't wait to see what's possible with a FFS Hotside.

The only real downside of the FFS kit is that the power delivery is so smooth that it FEELS different from a comparable turbocharged car, less capable even though it has similar max power output. You can post dyno plots all day long but you'll never sell the low-end torque delivery as an asset (the turbo crowd wants the boost-response at the mid-range, they think it's "cool").

Unfortunately, the last is similar to the problem that Mazda faced with the FD RX-7 in 1993 - even though the power-to-weight ratio and performance were better than the other sports cars, it couldn't win the marketing wars. In other words, why would anyone buy a 250bhp RX-7 when Toyota, Nissan and Mitsubishi all offered 320+ horsepower cars.
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Old 01-30-2008, 08:46 PM   #4
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FWIW it is 'possible' to add a SC to increase fuel efficiency. A miller cycle motor uses a positive displacement SC to push the air into the engine. It has late intake valve timing to cut pumping losses at the beggining of the intake stroke, when the crank has little leverage. Usually 35-40* delayed valve timing. Mazda is the only car manufacturer to ever use a miller cycle, they used it on the millenia S. Anywho, adding an SC to a stock engine isn't gonna boost fuel efficiency obviously. Just thought I would mention the one case that it does.
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Old 01-30-2008, 10:46 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
Dude names snakebit over at m.newt recently resurrected an old thread entitled "Has anybody ever dealt with FFS" to say:
(my emphasis)

Without passing judgment on Tom, the PcPro, or his Supercharger kits, how does adding parasitic drag improve efficiency?
Hahaha, someone's shilling for FFS ...

The better than stock fuel mileage thing because of the supercharger is not true. (And I have a sc)
It doesn't add that much drag when not in boost, but at best the fuel mileage could be like stock not better ...
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Old 01-30-2008, 11:27 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j_man View Post
Hahaha, someone's shilling for FFS ...
Is Tom so desperate for customers,he needs people to "shill" for him?
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Old 01-30-2008, 11:42 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spike View Post
Is Tom so desperate for customers,he needs people to "shill" for him?
Dunno. Tom himself posted that request to his customers to shill at mnet for him since he is no longer a sponsor. So, it is either that or he just likes seeing his name at the top of the mnet forum ... Ask him
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Old 01-30-2008, 11:45 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
I'm putting out between 170-190whp from my modified JRSC and I can't wait to see what's possible with a FFS Hotside.
Do you have one of them magic AEM widebands with self darkening?


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Old 01-30-2008, 11:51 PM   #9
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scott, who did you copy paste now? lol
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Old 01-31-2008, 01:13 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whaaamx5 View Post
scott, who did you copy paste now? lol
I was wondering the same thing..
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Old 01-31-2008, 01:45 PM   #11
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There's an uncommon German centri supercharger kit for the BMW E36 M3 that uses a clutch to disengage the s/c. I got to drive one and it's very transparent. User reports show MPG similar to the turbo guys. In contrast, people like me with a Dinan or other non-clutched centri s/c report significantly lower MPG.
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Old 01-31-2008, 01:46 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patsmx5 View Post
FWIW it is 'possible' to add a SC to increase fuel efficiency. A miller cycle motor uses a positive displacement SC to push the air into the engine.....
I believe the resulting Millenia S MPG is no better than a Camry with the same HP and weight.
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Old 01-31-2008, 01:47 PM   #13
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BTW is there anything wrong with a FFS supercharger with a Greddy EM?
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Old 01-31-2008, 01:57 PM   #14
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Uh, the millenia 2.3 was putting out 220 hp back in 95'. Not sure what a 2.3 camry made back then, but I kinda doubt it was more than 220hp. Plus the millenia produced it's peak power earlier in the power band than a typical NA motor, due to the valve timing. Camry's and Mazda's are two different vehicles built to do different things anyway and that's not relevant. IIRC, the 2.3 millenia got 28mpg on the highway with 220 hp on tap.
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Old 01-31-2008, 04:52 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patsmx5 View Post
Uh, the millenia 2.3 was putting out 220 hp back in 95'. Not sure what a 2.3 camry made back then, but I kinda doubt it was more than 220hp. Plus the millenia produced it's peak power earlier in the power band than a typical NA motor, due to the valve timing. Camry's and Mazda's are two different vehicles built to do different things anyway and that's not relevant. IIRC, the 2.3 millenia got 28mpg on the highway with 220 hp on tap.
Seems to me the camry and millena would cater to the exact same buyer.
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Old 01-31-2008, 05:05 PM   #16
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Bit half and half here.

I log ALL my fill up's for claiming fuel expenses from work, so i've got every fill up from the last 5 years.

In 2004 to 2006 when i fitted the MP62 hotside i was averaging 22.65 miles per uk gallon.
Pretty ***** really, but i live in a major city where which ever direction i go in i've got at least a 30min traffic jam, plus my Miata is a Automatic, plus i drive with the top down everyday unless it's raining or above 40c.

That's also including trackdays, touring etc.

When i fitted the SC in 06 my mpg went from 22.65 to 23.87 even though i was booting it more.


Thing is this is nothing to do with the SC and more to do with the fact that i fitted a EMU at the same time and tuned my car to a AFR of 12.5 at WOT rather than off the scale 10 as it came from Mazda.

From what i've seen of the PC though, it tends to run even richer so unless it's been tweaked via a wideband O2 to get the AFR's better i can't honestly see how the MPG improved?


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Old 01-31-2008, 05:30 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eunos1800 View Post
Thing is this is nothing to do with the SC and more to do with the fact that i fitted a EMU at the same time and tuned my car to a AFR of 12.5 at WOT rather than off the scale 10 as it came from Mazda.

i see a lot of validity here. but ive never seen a stock miata go richer than 12:1 itself. But even so, going 12:1 at 100hp is highly inefficient.
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Old 01-31-2008, 05:57 PM   #18
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i've seen my completely stock(exceptAEM WBO2) 94 down in the 10:1 range at WOT over 4k
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Old 01-31-2008, 05:58 PM   #19
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well that's silly.
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Old 02-01-2008, 01:15 AM   #20
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LOL. The shills have this thread scheduled 1 shill per day

http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread...=258701&page=2


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