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Old 11-07-2006, 09:46 AM   #21
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I guess I don't get the FM hate here either. They do have a staff to pay for, R&D, dyno and dyno testing, and of course making a profit.

There are things to dislike about Bell's kit too. That's a pricey friggin' piggyback they're selling.

I'll venture to say that FM are better tuners than Bell's staff. Unless you get Shiv on the phone, you might run into tuning issues. He's probably busy effin up Subarus.

Frank
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Old 11-07-2006, 09:47 AM   #22
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I think they did a great job putting together this kit. Only time will tell how reliable their silicone pipes will be. Everyone criticized FM in the past for costly turbo systems. Well, they found a way to lower the cost of their kits and people still aren't happy.

Last edited by Stripes; 11-07-2006 at 09:58 AM.
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Old 11-07-2006, 10:07 AM   #23
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with Corky's Stage 3 kit you get:
• his cast manifold
• distribution block
• cold air box
• divorced 2.5" to 2.75" Downpipe
• scooper
• welded pipes
• welded recirc. pipe
• bolt in intercooler
• boost gauge & pod
• GT2560R Turbo (-$200 for GT2554)
• FMU & FP - upgradable
• Bolt in intercooler
• CARB legal

$4150
FM's Voodoo II kit you get:
• similar copy of Corky's manifold
• standard oil/water lines
• dunno about air box
• 2.5" semi-divorced Downpipe
• no scooper
• silicone pipes
• heater hose for recirc.
• boost gauge and pod
• same turbo GT2560 (GT2554 same price)
• voodoo box gizmo for fuel -7psi limited
• L-Bracketed Intercooler
• CARB Pending

$2995
Tit-for-tat at that price point FM wins out, IMHO.

Then $5300 vs. $5000 for a full blown system with XEDE vs. Hydra. I'd say BEGi wins out at this point.

I really think it will depend on who markets it better, and FM will most likely win in that department. If BEGi revamps the website (call me) and works on martketing the kit then there will be fierce competition.

Last edited by Braineack; 11-07-2006 at 10:20 AM.
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Old 11-07-2006, 10:19 AM   #24
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fwiw I've got one of the old style voodoo kits on my car and honestly for the $2100 or so that I spent on it, I'm very happy with everything I got. But of course this is with the Bell manifold/cast downpipe and steel pipes to the TB. Best of all, the parts were brand new and warrantied.

Just because you start with a kit doesn't mean you can be any less DIY than another guy. I could have bought an FMII but I didn't like the piggyback link or the intercooler setup that they used to use and honestly didn't think it was worth the money at that point. So I bought the cheapest kit I could and am building my own IC and pipes and will go with whatever ECU I feel like later on.

I applaud both Bell and FM for their products, Great stuff for everyone
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Old 11-07-2006, 10:44 AM   #25
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But I'd say on average the people who buy those kits don't install them or tune them or tinker with them, themselves.
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Old 11-07-2006, 10:49 AM   #26
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To really level the field, you need to also consider that the BEGi kit comes with more stuff than the FM kit. To make it apples-->apples remove the cost of the extra BEGi items:
(prices from begi website)
Distribution block: $195
IC Scooper: $150
Cold Air Box: $178
Total: $523
Cost of Stripped BEGi Kit: $4150-533=$3627
Difference: $3627-2995=$632

After that, it's subjective. What is 5-10 hp, earlier boost, welded ic pipes, and direct fit ic worth to you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by braineack View Post
with Corky's Stage 3 kit you get:
his cast manifold
distribution block
cold air box
divorced 2.5" to 2.75" Downpipe
scooper
welded pipes
welded recirc. pipe
bolt in intercooler
boost gauge & pod
GT2560R Turbo (-$200 for GT2554)
FMU & FP - upgradable
Bolt in intercooler
CARB legal

$4150
FM's Voodoo II kit you get:
similar copy of Corky's manifold
standard oil/water lines
dunno about air box
2.5" semi-divorced Downpipe
no scooper
silicone pipes
heater hose for recirc.
boost gauge and pod
same turbo GT2560 (GT2554 same price)
voodoo box gizmo for fuel -7psi limited
L-Bracketed Intercooler
CARB Pending

$2995
Tit-for-tat at that price point FM wins out, IMHO.
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Old 11-07-2006, 11:34 AM   #27
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Having two great turbo kits out there just makes it a better aftermarket all around. I'm pleased.
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Old 11-07-2006, 11:53 AM   #28
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Ill be interested in this only if we get numbers from the same dyno
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Old 11-07-2006, 11:58 AM   #29
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Honestly, if I hadn't met Cody at Lovefab, I would have bought one of those FM kits. But in the end, I take a hell of a lot more pride with my own setup, even if it isn't as well matched. It just isn't as cool to open your hood and say, "this is the kit I got in the mail..."

But Atlanta93LE is right, the more choices the better! And the more used parts available when the cars get smashed or returned from lease! Its a win/win for us.
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Old 11-07-2006, 12:12 PM   #30
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at least you'll be able to buy parts off each, would be nice to upgrade my coldside pipes with the FM pieces.
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Old 11-07-2006, 12:35 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bripab007 View Post
Because people in Florida, Texas, and other states don't give a **** about OBDII and would rather have the greater power of the Hydra ECU to unlock the full potential of their cars?
Actually, Texas does now care about emissions. About a month ago there was a guy in the Tejas miata club that was selling his Hydra in favor of the Xede, as the Xede allows the car to retain OBDII functionality. I imagine other states are not far off from doing the same.

The FM kit looks fine and I'm sure it works well. Like others have said, I prefer the hand-made BEGI parts (better quality and craftsmanship IMHO).
There is one thing that does bother me a little on the FM kit, and that's the throttle body intake tube. From the picture it looks like there is silicon hose from the intercooler, then a metal piece, then another rubber or silicon piece. I just don't like that setup very much. I recall seeing pics of the MSM rubber tube expanding under higher boost levels (looked like a balloon ready to pop).
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Old 11-07-2006, 12:43 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spike View Post
bripad lets just say that the FM kit is better than the BEGi kit(not a chance in the real world),I would still take the Bell kit over the FM kit cause I have my own reasons to be bitter with FM.
Spile, I would love to hear why you think the BEGi kit is so superior to the FM kit...I mean, when the main hardpoints in the kit are nearly identical (read: turbocharger, manifold, divorced-wastegate 2.5" downpipe, etc.), there's only so much difference that can be had.

These two kits will put down numbers withithin 5-10rwhp of each other at the same PSI...I guarantee it.

Besides, you've basically just told me I can ignore anything you have to say about FM or BEGi because you're biased towards either.
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Old 11-07-2006, 12:49 PM   #33
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Looks like FM has priced things pretty aggressive, which is a smart move. They've also packaged things in such a way to be quite different than BEGI, making it hard to compare and price shop.

Glad to see FM get their **** together, competition is a good thing!
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Old 11-07-2006, 12:50 PM   #34
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jayc72 is right.you cant have a miata monopoly.:gay:
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Old 11-07-2006, 12:57 PM   #35
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I think the BEGI DP is a better design that what FM is using, at least when you get into the BEGI Series 1.
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Old 11-07-2006, 01:07 PM   #36
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bripad,what makes the BEGi kit better,well lets see now,the manifold,downpipe,intercooler&pipes,water&oil lines and the distribution block,water by-pass system and did I mention that the kit also looks like it was built by someone that knew what they were doing and not mickey mouse.
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Old 11-07-2006, 01:20 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spike View Post
bripad,what makes the BEGi kit better,well lets see now,the manifold,downpipe,intercooler&pipes,water&oil lines and the distribution block,water by-pass system and did I mention that the kit also looks like it was built by someone that knew what they were doing and not mickey mouse.
Manifold are too similar to really say one is better than the other.

Downpipe will go to Corky for the true divorced setup. Although there really isn't anything wrong with FM's. Plus 2.5" vs. 2.75".

Intercoolers will both get the job done. I prefer BEGi's mounting better, still ify on FM's pipes.

BEGi has the distibution block, which is cool, but is it technically any better than running lines straight to the turbo?

water-by pass is sweet.

The ture differences are really just in the intercooler pipes and engine managment. They will both produce power level very similar to each other.
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Old 11-07-2006, 01:39 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spike View Post
bripad,what makes the BEGi kit better,well lets see now,the manifold,downpipe,intercooler&pipes,water&oil lines and the distribution block,water by-pass system and did I mention that the kit also looks like it was built by someone that knew what they were doing and not mickey mouse.
Looks like braineack beat me to the punch, but, specifically, why do you claim these things are better on BEGi's kit than FM's? I'd really love to hear your theories.

You'd be hard-pressed to make any actual measurements to quantify the difference between their manifolds and downpipes. FM's mani. appears to have smoother runners but lacks the exhaust pulse separator. BEGi's divorced wastegate dump pipe might be longer but re-enters the exhaust tract at almost a 90-degree angle. FM's silicone charge pipes might have smoother transitions and have less points of failure, but they might also help carry a couple extra degrees of charge temp that BEGi's pipes wouldn't. The distribution block might look classy and help keep the lines from chaffing other components or getting too close to the manifold, but FM's are wrapped in heatshielding and are routed well, too.

Okay, the water by-pass is a one-up...except, FM's kit apparently doesn't require such a solution, so does that make their kit better or worse because of it?

Do you understand now why your claims sound silly and unfounded? What precisely is "Mickey Mouse" about FM's kit?

EDIT: P.S. I prefer BEGi's kits myself, but that mainly has to do with the fact I find them classier in appearance, and I respect the man behind the program. FM's got stand-up people behind their program, too, but Corky's almost a legend at this point...so it's fun to root for him :-)
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Old 11-07-2006, 01:56 PM   #39
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Brian,cause they are!

I'm not interested in arguing or debating(it's what you seem to do best)with you,cause that's what you seem to do on this forum and over at m.net.If your looking for an e-fight go to m.net,I'm sure alot of people just like you over there would love to bebate,argue and bitch at each other for hours on end.

That's my opinion on the FM kit(and if you don't like it well too ****** bad),I don't have to explain to you the finest points why I think the BEGi kit is better or vice versa.
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Old 11-07-2006, 01:59 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atlanta93LE View Post
Having two great turbo kits out there just makes it a better aftermarket all around. I'm pleased.
Word.
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