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Old 11-07-2006, 11:31 PM   #61
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He built my DP for me when I was in a bind.
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Old 11-08-2006, 12:00 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by Al Hounos View Post
It's not just the durability of the IC pipes that I question, its the fact that they are insulators, making the intercooler the only cooling the charge air gets. I don't know how significant it is, but I'd imagine metal IC piping cools the air slightly on its way into the IC.
I don't know how much the metal pipes will cool the charge when there is very little airflow over them and a high ambient temperature in the engine bay. I think any difference either way would be very difficult to measure.
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Old 11-08-2006, 12:05 AM   #63
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I don't know how much the metal pipes will cool the charge when there is very little airflow over them and a high ambient temperature in the engine bay. I think any difference either way would be very difficult to measure.
I have seen some compelling data and the heat transfer capacity of the metal pipes is quite suprising. True there is some heat from the engine, but not as much as you would think (because of air flow). If I had to use one of these silicone tubes, I would only use one on the intake manifold side of the intercooler. That way the air would be insulated from post-intercooler, engine heat.
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Old 11-08-2006, 12:16 AM   #64
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Care to share the data and the source?
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Old 11-08-2006, 12:39 AM   #65
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Care to share the data and the source?
You have a PM
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Old 11-08-2006, 03:47 AM   #66
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people in Texas do care about OBD II as of 2 years ago
Bummer. Is that all of Texas?
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Old 11-08-2006, 06:38 AM   #67
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No one has mentioned the GT3071R option yet, I'm suprised! Wonder how much power that thing makes and how much lag goes with it?
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Old 11-08-2006, 08:12 AM   #68
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I have seen some compelling data and the heat transfer capacity of the metal pipes is quite suprising. True there is some heat from the engine, but not as much as you would think (because of air flow). If I had to use one of these silicone tubes, I would only use one on the intake manifold side of the intercooler. That way the air would be insulated from post-intercooler, engine heat.
It's a moot point if you have a good intercooler. Now if the test is done with one of the smallish ICs Bell previously used, then it might make a difference.

I could bring up the smoother flow of the silicone vs the turbulence of the hard pipes/junctions, but in the grand scheme of making power, I think neither of these make a **** of a difference.

Frank
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Old 11-08-2006, 09:34 AM   #69
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I could bring up the smoother flow of the silicone vs the turbulence of the hard pipes/junctions, but in the grand scheme of making power, I think neither of these make a **** of a difference.
I think they might make a **** of difference, but neither is enough to show a clear advantage/difference when comparing these two kits (BEGi and FM).
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Old 11-08-2006, 11:00 AM   #70
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I did mean a **** of difference on these two setups. IMHO, between the two kits, the better one is the one with the better tuner.

Frank
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Old 11-08-2006, 11:12 AM   #71
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True that.

I think one big difference is the Hydra ECU that FM tunes/sells. It's a pretty effing powerful ECU...one on which I would be more comfortable spending upwards of $1G, in contrast to the Xede.
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Old 11-08-2006, 11:32 AM   #72
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I should mention here that saying "BEGi's is better because Corky Bell says it is" is not really convicing compared to, say, an independent third party's evaluation of both setups.

Whoever wants to can: take an FM intercooler with the rubber piping and make an identical steel compressor outlet. Throw the car on the dyno and measure intercooler outlet temps in both cases.

I mean it probably is releasing heat but then the IC is less efficient (efficiency is proportional to temperature drop ratio).
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Old 11-08-2006, 11:35 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by fmowry View Post
I did mean a **** of difference on these two setups. IMHO, between the two kits, the better one is the one with the better tuner.

Frank
I call bullshit, unless you are shipping your car to FM to have the work done. Having a proficent tuner is great, if they can tune every car that has their kit. (Otherwise one base map is as good as another - think ballpark tune).

I'm not saying that FM's kit on a whole is better or worse, but hard parts to hard parts I'll take BEGi. Personally, I don't think I'm going to use either the Xede or Hydra, as my car is a 92 and has fewer emission restrictions. If I still had my 2000 I would choose the Xede (having OBDII compatibility is important to me). And I certainly wouldn't just slap it in there and call it a day...I would have it tuned on a dyno.

Last edited by Ike; 11-08-2006 at 11:57 AM.
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Old 11-08-2006, 11:41 AM   #74
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More competition = better prices/more innovation/more testing/etc... = GOOD. Nuff' said.

I like Pepsi, you like Coke....
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Old 11-08-2006, 11:52 AM   #75
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I am sure the 3071 spools just fine. That the turbo to go with if you want over 300 whp. Having a full 3" downpipe and exhaust behind it will help alot though as will having a properly dialed in EBC.
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Old 02-22-2007, 03:18 PM   #76
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I'd probably take Corky's judgement over FM's if they both rated two 3rd party vendors - obviously everyone will like their own stuff better. Both companies would rather see you spend your money with them - but in truth, both of them will help you with the other guy's products.

I've had some helpful advice from Corky, and TONS from both Bill and Keith. So much so that there's thousands I haven't spent with FM on account of it. They've eaten the cost on stuff when it was as much my fault as theirs (like when they sent me +1mm rings, but like a buttmonkey I didn't measure them and forced them into my block, destroying them). In short, I'd say the biggest problem with FM is their prices - and that's from a customer's point of view - from a neutral point of view they are doing just fine.

I'd love to see testing with the silicone hoses - they are NOT cheap to make, and perhaps the heat retention is offset by the smoother flow. Anything is better than the IC set up from their old kit.

We'll see if Corky helps me out with a EO plate. Apparently he and Bill don't agree on if my car is legal. :-)
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Old 02-23-2007, 01:49 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AbeFM View Post
but in truth, both of them will help you with the other guy's products.
I know of several instances in which FM has refused to help a customer with any part we sell or support on it.

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We'll see if Corky helps me out with a EO plate. Apparently he and Bill don't agree on if my car is legal. :-)
I have a copy of the EO papers, and I believe they could be looked up online too. If you'd like to send me a photo of your car, I would happy to be the 3rd interpretation.
Stephanie
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Old 02-23-2007, 02:03 PM   #78
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Tsk Tsk Stephanie! Leave the FM bashing to us the consumers. Don't stoop to our level. Your company is well loved, respected and appreciated on this forum.
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Old 02-23-2007, 02:45 PM   #79
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I was not FM bashing, I promise! I apologize if it sounded like I meant something else. That was not the message I was trying to convey. On the flip side, I have referred a person w/ a link to someone else who would do a much better job at tuning than I.
Stephanie
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Old 02-23-2007, 09:26 PM   #80
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no cueball is wrong you might have a vested interest in the debate but, you and the rest of begi have a ton more experience in dealing with FM. So i apreciate your opinion Stephanie. That is the whole point of us comming here to voice our opinions, and help others find the best solution. 35
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