Perhaps an entirely new group of fan boys to offend? - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


Insert BS here A place to discuss anything you want

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 05-30-2007, 08:06 PM   #1
Ben
Supporting Vendor
Thread Starter
iTrader: (33)
 
Ben's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: atlanta-ish
Posts: 12,689
Total Cats: 99
Default Perhaps an entirely new group of fan boys to offend?

Ben is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2007, 08:23 PM   #2
Elite Member
iTrader: (12)
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Central-ish VA
Posts: 4,449
Total Cats: 16
Default

the only pc going in my car will be a carputer!!











For porno on long roadtrips.
neogenesis2004 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2007, 09:05 PM   #3
Junior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 401
Total Cats: -1
Default

Uh huh.
chuckerants is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2007, 09:12 PM   #4
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,833
Total Cats: 1,786
Default

I keep my nose out of the SC business....but I've never understood the lack of timing and fueling with all the miata superchargers out there....I dunno how many "pinging at 2psi" threads I've seen....
Braineack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2007, 10:09 PM   #5
Junior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 401
Total Cats: -1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
I keep my nose out of the SC business....but I've never understood the lack of timing and fueling with all the miata superchargers out there....I dunno how many "pinging at 2psi" threads I've seen....
The core of the supercharger market is the person who installs it on his DD and doesn't want to learn how to program some new software to make his car run - the wine and cheese crowd if you will.

There are very few people like me for instance who not happy with what I have and want more. Most of the people that buy the FFS Coldside kits (for example) are the "set it and forget it" types. Most of those people don't need timing control and probably don't need the fueling control.

Is the MS better than the PC Pro? Better is a subjective term. A better (pun) and more objective question might be, "Does it have more features?" - absolutely. Specifically, is it "better" for that guy with the M45? That all depends on what he is interested in.

Also, note that my car is running a 65mm/115mm combo today when last year, I was running 65mm/100mm and pinging like crazy. I still don't have any timing control. Do I need one? I think I will now that I want just a little more power (LOL).

Lastly, be careful how you (not you brain) throw the term "fan boy" around. You're going to be using that term a lot if you tag me or that thread as "fan boy". Case in point - I have a turbo and want to know if I can use it help CORKEY OR STEPH.
chuckerants is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2007, 10:43 PM   #6
Junior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Athens, GA
Posts: 247
Total Cats: 0
Default

that conversation could get interesting...
GTS Miata is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2007, 11:39 PM   #7
Elite Member
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 2,900
Total Cats: 0
Default

"So, after all of that, the conclusion is that yes, you would need four bigger injectors to up the boost on a 1.6 with the MS system but more fueling is already included with the PC-Pro setup. Further, no you don't need two PC-Pro's on a 1.6. Finally, yes, to get the advantage of knock sensing on a 1.6 you would have to buy a knock sensor for the MS because its not included."

so if I understand that right... the PC-Pro has magical powers and can make a fuel injector flow more at the same pressure and duty cycle than the MS. No wonder they are charging so much for the unit.
Arkmage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2007, 11:50 PM   #8
Ben
Supporting Vendor
Thread Starter
iTrader: (33)
 
Ben's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: atlanta-ish
Posts: 12,689
Total Cats: 99
Default

Chuck I see the PCPro having a place in certain applicatons. It's a good match for you OBDII guys with factory knock detection systems, non return rails, and a decent intake tract.

The 90-93 has none of those things. A BEGi FMU would do what the PCPro does in this case, for $300 less. However, this guy can spend the same amount he budgeted, but get a better solution that should net him significantly more safety and more power. It's a no brainer. If I knew how to get 10-15 more hp out of your motor without you spending extra $$, with no downside, wouldn't you want me to tell you?

Me be careful how I throw around "fan boy"? Please. Your example doesn't make sense either. I've never knocked your beloved FFS. I think they offer excellent hardware and great customer service. But they are severely limited in the engine management department. SC guys in general seem to be ignorant to engine management... and wonder why their cars don't make good power.

Anyway, it's obvious that the moss guy has no clue what he's talking about at all. And I don't think Tom is up to speed on engine management...
Ben is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2007, 11:54 PM   #9
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,833
Total Cats: 1,786
Default

have you seen the two PCs installed before :gay:
Braineack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2007, 01:36 AM   #10
Junior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 401
Total Cats: -1
Default

Quote:
My end goals are modest, so I don't need a stand alone.
This is what the OP had to say.

Is the BeGi FMU piggyback? If so, I didn't see where you mentioned that.

Also, where did I accuse you or anyone else of "knocking" FFS?

Tom and I have had an ongoing discussion of about someone ALWAYS recommends a stand-alone as THE solution for everyone. It just isn't in all cases. Yes, it ALWAYS has more features, and it ALWAYS has the ability to squeeze more HP. But that's not what the OP was asking about.

I also agree and said so in my last post that in GENERAL, SC guys are ignorant about engine management. I know I am because a full stand-alone is not what I want. It may be something I want in the future, but not now.

Lastly, a stand-alone is just not for everyone, that's all.
chuckerants is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2007, 01:39 AM   #11
Junior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 401
Total Cats: -1
Default

Oh, and 200WHP from a JRSC? Show me someone that has done it and how much did they spend getting it there?
chuckerants is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2007, 09:16 AM   #12
:(
iTrader: (7)
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: nowhere
Posts: 8,281
Total Cats: 2
Default

The FMU is a rising rate fuel pressure regulator like what the M45 came with before the PC pro craze hit. No one has hit 200 whp on a m45 without a standalone and or some serius tunning and mods etc to my knowledge the m62 on the other hand is where the market should have landed years ago and i aplaude tom for bringing it to market as soon as the frigin bracket get done.
magnamx-5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2007, 09:47 AM   #13
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,833
Total Cats: 1,786
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckerants View Post
Oh, and 200WHP from a JRSC? Show me someone that has done it and how much did they spend getting it there?
Solflarick got close (182/157)....and I'm sure he spent $$$$
Braineack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2007, 10:53 AM   #14
Miotta FTW!
iTrader: (24)
 
Splitime's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chicagoland, IL
Posts: 4,292
Total Cats: 26
Default

Tom summed it up for me in his last response... I posted my thoughts over there.

It ties in with web forum mods being sponsors also... just a bad thing. (general web forums btw... no targeting any specifically)
Splitime is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2007, 11:33 AM   #15
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,450
Total Cats: -1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckerants View Post
Oh, and 200WHP from a JRSC? Show me someone that has done it and how much did they spend getting it there?
Both Bochinam and JMan did it with the M45...mounted to a coldside BRP intake mani.
bripab007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2007, 11:43 AM   #16
Elite Member
iTrader: (14)
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Edmonton, AB
Posts: 4,921
Total Cats: 0
Default

Lots of people could be accused of being fan boys. People in glass houses and all that.

Bottom line is that just because something is better doesn't mean it is appropriate in every case. Might as well start arguing the merits of a turbo over a supercharger.

I think the limitations of the hardware are what drives most M45 users to not explore more complex fuel managment.
jayc72 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2007, 12:33 PM   #17
Ben
Supporting Vendor
Thread Starter
iTrader: (33)
 
Ben's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: atlanta-ish
Posts: 12,689
Total Cats: 99
Default

Chuck, the OP is a little cost conscious. I don't think he realized that there is a strong standalone out there at a piggyback price. But he is looking for competent engine management for his FI track car. Wouldn't he be better off with something that will make more power, with timing control and active knock sensing?

Jay, you may be right. The hardware is limited. However if these guys want to get away from stone age EM, they'll start getting better results.

It's a shame that all those guys who will purchase the FFS 1.6 mp62 kit are going to get PCPros and retard their timing. Tom should open up his eyes, so his customers can make real power, safely.
Ben is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2007, 01:20 PM   #18
:(
iTrader: (7)
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: nowhere
Posts: 8,281
Total Cats: 2
Default

They wont retard there timming he will go for the best maintainable HP on stock timming. Chuckerants ran all his tests on stock timming etc. This is not a greddy kit they wont need to do the retard thing, the mp62 is effecient enough to not make a whole lot of heat at modest boost levels.
magnamx-5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2007, 01:42 PM   #19
Elite Member
iTrader: (14)
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Edmonton, AB
Posts: 4,921
Total Cats: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben View Post
Chuck, the OP is a little cost conscious. I don't think he realized that there is a strong standalone out there at a piggyback price. But he is looking for competent engine management for his FI track car. Wouldn't he be better off with something that will make more power, with timing control and active knock sensing?
Yes. Assuming he has the time, money and/or ability to tune it. As far as I know there aren't any tuned base maps for the 1.6 JRSC equiped car on the MS are there? I get the idea that he wants to bolt on and go, no tuning.

Your rabid enthusiasm for your particular EMS of choice can be mistaken for having an adgenda or maybe an axe to grind. I know that you are just really excited about the MSPNP, others see it as being a fan boy. Which is ironic considering the name of this thread
jayc72 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2007, 02:17 PM   #20
Senior Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 502
Total Cats: 0
Default

The PnP MS is also not much more expensive than the PCpro and timing control
drewbroo is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
My solution for Oiltemp and Oilpressure input into Megasuirt (MS3) Zaphod MEGAsquirt 41 01-24-2016 01:25 PM
Back to Stock Part Out!! Turbo Parts, MS2 Enhanced 01-05, Suspension, and MOAR! StratoBlue1109 Miata parts for sale/trade 16 10-02-2015 10:39 AM
Help multi issues here! ReallyRottenTurbo MEGAsquirt 4 09-22-2015 01:49 PM
Interpreting Deatchwerks Dead Times from Battery Wizard compuw22c MEGAsquirt 0 09-14-2015 07:08 PM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:52 AM.