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Old 05-31-2007, 02:19 PM   #21
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Ben,
It's also easy for you to sit on top of your MSPNP perch since you have a car that is successfully running it and putting up good numbers. There are still quite a few stories of people who can't even get theirs to communicate with a PC. Some people aren't geek certified to hook **** up to a PC to get it to work. Then they're stuck because there isn't a "guy" to call for support who has a MS running on the same setup.

Frank
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Old 05-31-2007, 02:29 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by drewbroo View Post
The PnP MS is also not much more expensive than the PCpro and timing control
That's not the point. Just because it's priced right and is a "better" product doesn't mean that it is the right product for the user.
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Old 05-31-2007, 02:35 PM   #23
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Ben,
It's also easy for you to sit on top of your MSPNP perch since you have a car that is successfully running it and putting up good numbers. There are still quite a few stories of people who can't even get theirs to communicate with a PC. Some people aren't geek certified to hook **** up to a PC to get it to work. Then they're stuck because there isn't a "guy" to call for support who has a MS running on the same setup.

Frank
Also let's not forget that Ben has his car was professionally tuned by an expert on the MS.

Not knocking you or the MSPNP Ben, it just isn't the be all end all you know?
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Old 05-31-2007, 02:36 PM   #24
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I didn't mean to come off like a fan boy. Perhaps I did. Good call Jay.
Really I went in there to offer an opinion and an option, and thought I did so in a correct, respectful, and helpful manner.

Frank, I know of only 1 dude with those issues... and his problem is loading usb/serial adaptor drivers on his vista box.

Points well taken.

Tom's tangent is quite amusing.

Ben
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Old 05-31-2007, 02:40 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by jayc72 View Post
Also let's not forget that Ben has his car was professionally tuned by an expert on the MS.

Not knocking you or the MSPNP Ben, it just isn't the be all end all you know?
Yup, Jerry offered his help, and I got a deal on dyno time. It was a no brainer. And now there is an FI base map for the other guys to start with.
Had that not happened, I would have done it myself. Perhaps I wouldn't have gotten all the power out of it that I did, but if I got it to 90% of current it would have been better than where it was before. FWIW, I tuned the cruising zones myself.
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Old 05-31-2007, 02:43 PM   #26
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Tom's tangent is quite amusing.

Ben
Ya he's coming off looking pretty defensive. The mature and business savy thing to have done would to have let you express your opinion and leave it at that. He'll self destruct eventually.
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Old 05-31-2007, 02:47 PM   #27
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Yup, Jerry offered his help, and I got a deal on dyno time. It was a no brainer. And now there is an FI base map for the other guys to start with.
Had that not happened, I would have done it myself. Perhaps I wouldn't have gotten all the power out of it that I did, but if I got it to 90% of current it would have been better than where it was before. FWIW, I tuned the cruising zones myself.
You are smart to have done it. And if I had access to the same resources I'd jump on it. Instead I'm going to have to tune everything myself, and I have so little time to spend with the car I'll be lucky to get it sorted out by the time I park it for the season! Good thing is that the base maps from FM aren't too bad and allow me to drive the car quite happily.

I only pointed out that you had time and money invested into the tuning, where as the PC is supposed to be a plug and go solution. And good on you for helping the rest of the "community". Hopefully DIY will spend some time and money on further improving your map on different cars. Even if they have to charge more for the solution.

Jay
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Old 05-31-2007, 02:51 PM   #28
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...For porno on long roadtrips.
there's a stick shift joke in there somewhere :gay:
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Old 05-31-2007, 03:38 PM   #29
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Ya he's coming off looking pretty defensive. The mature and business savy thing to have done would to have let you express your opinion and leave it at that. He'll self destruct eventually.
Jay, he was doing the "mature" thing for a long time and just letting people bash him and his company. If you look at all the posts about FM, BRP/SOT, and Begi, Tom and FFS is by far the one vendor that gets "bashed" the most frequently. Even when people were getting screwed by Brant of BRP, no one really bashed Brant.

If you haven't noticed this, maybe you will from now on.

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Just because it's priced right and is a "better" product doesn't mean that it is the right product for the user.
I guess you said it clearer than I did, but this is exactly what Tom said and what I've been trying to say.
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Old 05-31-2007, 04:10 PM   #30
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Jay, he was doing the "mature" thing for a long time and just letting people bash him and his company. If you look at all the posts about FM, BRP/SOT, and Begi, Tom and FFS is by far the one vendor that gets "bashed" the most frequently. Even when people were getting screwed by Brant of BRP, no one really bashed Brant.

If you haven't noticed this, maybe you will from now on.



I guess you said it clearer than I did, but this is exactly what Tom said and what I've been trying to say.
I don't follow all the drama on m.net. I judged Tom's actions on that thread alone. To me the history doesn't matter, if he is frustrated from past experience maybe he should not be operating the keyboad and leave that to someone more diplomatic. Come on, he prides himself on being abrasive.

The difference is I said what I had to say with out the sarcasm and pseudo wit (Tom not you).

Amazing how we all get so invested in some vendors product that we take it personally when someone points out the short commings. It's not like someone is saying your mom's a ***** (I have no knowledge of this either way).

I need a nap.
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Old 05-31-2007, 04:11 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by m2cupcar View Post
there's a stick shift joke in there somewhere :gay:
ewwww. Sticky shifter.
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Old 05-31-2007, 04:21 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by chuckerants View Post
Jay, he was doing the "mature" thing for a long time and just letting people bash him and his company. If you look at all the posts about FM, BRP/SOT, and Begi, Tom and FFS is by far the one vendor that gets "bashed" the most frequently. Even when people were getting screwed by Brant of BRP, no one really bashed Brant.

If you haven't noticed this, maybe you will from now on.

I guess you said it clearer than I did, but this is exactly what Tom said and what I've been trying to say.
Everybody has been bashed is a better idea here. Brant, and the rest of BRP were bashed quite good. Also the FM, BEGI, and the others have all been bashed nicely..... It would seem it's just somebody else's turn. It all goes around.... somebody's the basher/bashie of the week.

Besides, you can always ignore the posts you don't like. <G>

Dave,
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Old 05-31-2007, 04:33 PM   #33
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I didn't bash Tom/FFS. No one else did either--except maybe Loki just a little.tom gets confrontational semi often. I read a great deal of what he writes, and have seen him get a bit testy.anyway I think that whole thread started going downhill when the ignoramus from moss came in & the slide certainly wasn't arrested by tom.
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Old 05-31-2007, 04:40 PM   #34
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OMG! If I buy a plug and play Megasquirt I have to spend $100 on four whole injectors? And install them, myself!?!?
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