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Old 12-12-2008, 12:46 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
so we are clear:
Ok, here is my thought, what do you guys think.

Hypers design has one flaw. the mixer is broke. No circulation when the thermastat is closed. Therefore, no heater, no turbo cooling.

If he puts the thermastat in the back, it is nothing diferent than a normal reroute.

But so far I do like some of this design. But my next thoughts would hinder heat up times in the winter.

Iinstead of piping the heater out into the thermastat, bypass the thermastat and hook the return into the top radiator hose. The mixer isn't broke. water flows, but the motor will take longer to warm up. Since the thermistat is being bypassed partially. But for the race application, who cares about heater.

It comes back down too, do you want a race car or a daily driver.
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Old 12-12-2008, 12:49 PM   #102
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Thats going to be alot of water trying to get thru the heater core and small hoses. Not to mention you are now FEEDING your turbo the hottest water. I think it gets even worse. After you feed your turbo the hottest water, the turbo will heat it up even more and then send it back into the motor. Probably a small amount but still.
your comments about that my be debatible. It's best to cool the turbo with hot water than not to cool at all. At the same time the mixing pipe that cause the stock miata cooling system to overheat is no longer there. That is the basis my reroute.
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Old 12-12-2008, 12:50 PM   #103
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Ok, here is my thought, what do you guys think.

Hypers design has one flaw. the mixer is broke. No circulation when the thermastat is closed. Therefore, no heater, no turbo cooling.

If he puts the thermastat in the back, it is nothing diferent than a normal reroute.

But so far I do like some of this design. But my next thoughts would hinder heat up times in the winter.

Iinstead of piping the heater out into the thermastat, bypass the thermastat and hook the return into the top radiator hose. The mixer isn't broke. water flows, but the motor will take longer to warm up. Since the thermistat is being bypassed partially. But for the race application, who cares about heater.

It comes back down too, do you want a race car or a daily driver.
in my previous application I bypassed the heater core. I still have the hose, that modification is piece of cake. Thanks!!
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Old 12-12-2008, 12:53 PM   #104
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Hyper, This is a different way to do it. But I think the regular way is better, and if you want to reroute the mixer, just route the heater return after the thermostat. I think that would optimize what you are looking for.
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Old 12-12-2008, 12:55 PM   #105
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One other thing I have ran into in the past though. Sometimesyour radiator needs that stop of flow to cool the radiator water down, or it can heat soak. I don't think it would in this design though.
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Old 12-12-2008, 12:57 PM   #106
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Yeah. The big issues here are:

1- When the thermostat is closed, the only way water can circulate through the system is through the turbo. Since this is a small and restrictive path, flow through the front of the engine will be reduced and flow through the rear of the engine will still be virtually zero.

2- When the thermostat is open, total circulation through the engine will be less than with a rear-thermostat reroute, as the primary cooling path is more restrictive.

(and of course)

3- He hasn't actually implemented this, he's still running with no freeze plug and zero flow through the back of the block.
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Old 12-12-2008, 12:58 PM   #107
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One other thing I have ran into in the past though. Sometimesyour radiator needs that stop of flow to cool the radiator water down, or it can heat soak. I don't think it would in this design though.
sir,

the fans I have on the car pretty much extract all the heat fast. Perhaps in a system with stock fans, perhaps Spal fans really work.
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Old 12-12-2008, 12:59 PM   #108
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Let me update them all for turboz:
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Old 12-12-2008, 01:02 PM   #109
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I will go search lots, and lots of engines. I'm almost certain most cars have some sort of mixer of hot coolant with cold, it's the only way to maintain circulation with a closed thermostat.

I think you should run the motor the way you have it though. You seem supremely confident in it.
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Old 12-12-2008, 01:03 PM   #110
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You know, this whole thing really reminds me of the airplane on the treadmill argument. No matter how long it goes on, you still have one group of people trying to explain basic physics to the other group of people, while the other group of people think the first group are retards who are overlooking some presumably obvious fact yet are unable to clearly describe what that fact is, until somebody finally mans up and appropriates a C-130.
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Old 12-12-2008, 01:12 PM   #111
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This would recirculate. But your heater would suck, and since the thrmostat is some what compromised. Heat up would suffer. But I think it would work.
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Old 12-12-2008, 01:12 PM   #112
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Let me update them all for turboz:
lmao
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Old 12-12-2008, 01:20 PM   #113
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This would recirculate. But your heater would suck, and since the thrmostat is some what compromised. Heat up would suffer. But I think it would work.
Tod....

Think about this again. This is exactly what I don't like about the BEGi "Re-route."

Moving the heater return to the radiator inlet causes the flow to lessen (pressure differentials) and warm-up to time dramatically increase (lack of recirculating water).

Turbo inlet and outlet stay the same....water flows from the waterneck to the mixing manifold, not the other way around, so the coolant is still always the hottest there.

What I'm trying to figure out is why we don't use the coldest coolant source on the block above the factory oil source, as seen here: http://boostedmiata.com/blown_engine...nebuild001.jpg
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Old 12-12-2008, 01:42 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
What I'm trying to figure out is why we don't use the coldest coolant source on the block above the factory oil source, as seen here: http://boostedmiata.com/blown_engine...nebuild001.jpg
Would make sense. Mazda used that port on MazdaSpeed Miatas to route coolant through the turbo and had it route via hardline back into the hardtube under the exhaust manifold. I have pictures of it at home if anyone would like to see.
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Old 12-12-2008, 01:49 PM   #115
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Would make sense. Mazda used that port on MazdaSpeed Miatas to route coolant through the turbo and had it route via hardline back into the hardtube under the exhaust manifold. I have pictures of it at home if anyone would like to see.
Post them up.

Brainack, Oh yea, on a cold morning you would be screwed with the no mix. But for racing on a hot day, and reroute this way, and use the colder coolant to the turbo you are talking about. You should be better for the track.

But I bet my car doesn't even get a re-route. Unless my girl goes to work full time and I decide to track race. Otherwise I'm good. I mainly tool around.

I need the heater, and definatly the A/C!!! If the car has no a/c I will put it on, or sell it!

No one likes a sweat dripping person coming into work.
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Old 12-12-2008, 01:58 PM   #116
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Originally Posted by Toddcod View Post
This would recirculate. But your heater would suck, and since the thrmostat is some what compromised. Heat up would suffer. But I think it would work.
Not only would warmup blow, your heater core would end up with flow reversion at that tee after the thermostat opens. No bueno.
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Old 12-12-2008, 02:16 PM   #117
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I will post the pictures then tonight. Work PC does not like allowing remote access. lol
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Old 12-12-2008, 02:32 PM   #118
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Scott, what program did you use for the images of the different setups?


Tony
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Old 12-12-2008, 02:45 PM   #119
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Originally Posted by Toddcod View Post

Brainack, Oh yea, on a cold morning you would be screwed with the no mix. But for racing on a hot day, and reroute this way, and use the colder coolant to the turbo you are talking about. You should be better for the track.

There would be no more cooler coolant to the turbo than without the heater core bypass.

Water does not reverse flow through the turbo because you magically decide it should. It will flow from the front of the motor, into the waterneck, through the turbo, into the mixing manifold.

The only way to get truly cold coolant, is to source directly AFTER the water pump...You gotta think of the pressure differentials. If you tap into the mixing manifold (before the water pump) then your exit needs to have less pressure....there's nowhere this exists.

If you happen to tap after the water pump as your source (higher pressure, low temp), then you make the outlet before the water pump (low pressure), then you'll have you best turbo and oil cooler source.
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Old 12-12-2008, 02:47 PM   #120
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Scott, what program did you use for the images of the different setups?

Adobe InDesign....

I started it in Adobe Illustrator, but InDesign can automatically do the little arrow ends and curves, so it made it easier....all the tools are the same.
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