Really killer, really expensive wheels that none of you cheap skates are going to buy
12-29-2011, 11:30 AM
#41
It had a better stance before I switched to 315/30R18 Kumho Ecsta XS in the rear but I have traction now so that's good. I don't want to lower it any more than it already is because the last time I did it was a pain in the *** around town.
Once I get my Miata going, I'll likely order CCWs or Fikses. IDK if I wanna go with chrome or not though, I don't really care for black.
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12-29-2011, 02:24 PM
#42
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There are exceptions to this, of course. When a part had been discontinued (Arrows S2000 flares, for example), or is incredibly difficult to get ahold of, (rharris's Mazdaspeed N2/ Tuckin99 flares), or any factory bodywork is more than fair game.
Tirerack still had them listed for sale until a few weeks ago. I bought mine from a buddy who bought them in the summer, so there have to be sets floating around. If you really want a set, I'd be happy to sell mine.
Nobody said you couldn't go fast on Chinesium. I said you shouldn't. Further, if the $200 difference in a set of legit wheels means the difference between finishing your track day car/ getting track time, and not, you obviously shouldn't be throwing money down the track day drain in the first place.
Work isnt loosing alot of business to rota. Every industry is like this. Still have yet to see harbor freight run snap on out of business.
And how come work cant come out with a budget friendly line, if they are worried about loosing business to a cheaper manufacturer, they easil;y have the resources to manufacturer cheaper wheels, rebrand them or even sell them under the same brand. Companies do this all the time, even wheel companies. Pretty common for the high end guys, make a speciic wheel with few options for a specific fitment and drop price. Or go way cheap to cast wheels and market them under a different brand. If Maxxim is still around they are an example.
A good company shouldn't loose sleep over cheap knockoffs, if thats all they are, now if someone has started making the same part, the same quality, etc etc for less, well your boned, and its your fault. Have to differentiate yourself to show the reason for higher price or drop your price. Same in every industry.
And how come work cant come out with a budget friendly line, if they are worried about loosing business to a cheaper manufacturer, they easil;y have the resources to manufacturer cheaper wheels, rebrand them or even sell them under the same brand. Companies do this all the time, even wheel companies. Pretty common for the high end guys, make a speciic wheel with few options for a specific fitment and drop price. Or go way cheap to cast wheels and market them under a different brand. If Maxxim is still around they are an example.
A good company shouldn't loose sleep over cheap knockoffs, if thats all they are, now if someone has started making the same part, the same quality, etc etc for less, well your boned, and its your fault. Have to differentiate yourself to show the reason for higher price or drop your price. Same in every industry.
Rays' has the Gram Lights line. Work's Emotion line is significantly cheaper than most of their other stuff. The problem is that when you have to actually incur engineering, design, prototyping, and validation costs, you have to charge the customer for them. Think about the costs in tooling to prototype a forged wheel. Or the costs to have the JWL test and validate them. What about the cost to redesign them for a little less weight if they totally smash the tests, and you can save the customer another half pound, or worse, if one of your engineers forgets to carry a one, or gets too close on a factor of safety someplace and they're not safe?
When Rota buys a TE37V (or more likely looks at one in a magazine ad) and just CADs up a quick copy and sends it to China with no testing, no validation, no costs involved at all, they can charge $89 per wheel because it doesn't really cost them anything. They had to pay one guy for an afternoon's work to draw the parts in Solidworks, and a tool and die maker in Taiwan to make a casting jig/ mold. Then they just happily mold the JWL logo into the rim with no repercussions, as Taiwan has no legal punishment for copying another country's Engineering Standards markings.
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12-29-2011, 11:43 PM
#43
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I was going to describe what I'm working with atm, but I just walked outside and took a pic instead:
It had a better stance before I switched to 315/30R18 Kumho Ecsta XS in the rear but I have traction now so that's good. I don't want to lower it any more than it already is because the last time I did it was a pain in the *** around town.
Once I get my Miata going, I'll likely order CCWs or Fikses. IDK if I wanna go with chrome or not though, I don't really care for black.
It had a better stance before I switched to 315/30R18 Kumho Ecsta XS in the rear but I have traction now so that's good. I don't want to lower it any more than it already is because the last time I did it was a pain in the *** around town.
Once I get my Miata going, I'll likely order CCWs or Fikses. IDK if I wanna go with chrome or not though, I don't really care for black.
Stock power?
I dont think CCW or Fikse do a chrome finish. Im pretty sure its all polished/machined. Fikse has some new finish called chroma but Im pretty sure its just bad *** polishing.
Fikse does some finish that resembles gunmetal, cant remeber the name of it though.
What are you running up front?
Ive alwasy liked the invo for vette fitments.
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12-30-2011, 12:02 AM
#44
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Knockoffs are knockoffs. When a company is capable of making a higher quality part than the competition, but doesn't have the design/ engineering capability or the creativity to come up with their own product, that's the worst kind of shame. Touge Run is taking money directly out of the pockets of Garage Vary. They bought a GV lip, sent it to China, and are now selling a DIRECT copy. Shameful.
There are exceptions to this, of course. When a part had been discontinued (Arrows S2000 flares, for example), or is incredibly difficult to get ahold of, (rharris's Mazdaspeed N2/ Tuckin99 flares), or any factory bodywork is more than fair game.
Nobody said you couldn't go fast on Chinesium. I said you shouldn't. Further, if the $200 difference in a set of legit wheels means the difference between finishing your track day car/ getting track time, and not, you obviously shouldn't be throwing money down the track day drain in the first place.
Rays' has the Gram Lights line. Work's Emotion line is significantly cheaper than most of their other stuff. The problem is that when you have to actually incur engineering, design, prototyping, and validation costs, you have to charge the customer for them. Think about the costs in tooling to prototype a forged wheel. Or the costs to have the JWL test and validate them. What about the cost to redesign them for a little less weight if they totally smash the tests, and you can save the customer another half pound, or worse, if one of your engineers forgets to carry a one, or gets too close on a factor of safety someplace and they're not safe?
When Rota buys a TE37V (or more likely looks at one in a magazine ad) and just CADs up a quick copy and sends it to China with no testing, no validation, no costs involved at all, they can charge $89 per wheel because it doesn't really cost them anything. They had to pay one guy for an afternoon's work to draw the parts in Solidworks, and a tool and die maker in Taiwan to make a casting jig/ mold. Then they just happily mold the JWL logo into the rim with no repercussions, as Taiwan has no legal punishment for copying another country's Engineering Standards markings.
There are exceptions to this, of course. When a part had been discontinued (Arrows S2000 flares, for example), or is incredibly difficult to get ahold of, (rharris's Mazdaspeed N2/ Tuckin99 flares), or any factory bodywork is more than fair game.
Nobody said you couldn't go fast on Chinesium. I said you shouldn't. Further, if the $200 difference in a set of legit wheels means the difference between finishing your track day car/ getting track time, and not, you obviously shouldn't be throwing money down the track day drain in the first place.
Rays' has the Gram Lights line. Work's Emotion line is significantly cheaper than most of their other stuff. The problem is that when you have to actually incur engineering, design, prototyping, and validation costs, you have to charge the customer for them. Think about the costs in tooling to prototype a forged wheel. Or the costs to have the JWL test and validate them. What about the cost to redesign them for a little less weight if they totally smash the tests, and you can save the customer another half pound, or worse, if one of your engineers forgets to carry a one, or gets too close on a factor of safety someplace and they're not safe?
When Rota buys a TE37V (or more likely looks at one in a magazine ad) and just CADs up a quick copy and sends it to China with no testing, no validation, no costs involved at all, they can charge $89 per wheel because it doesn't really cost them anything. They had to pay one guy for an afternoon's work to draw the parts in Solidworks, and a tool and die maker in Taiwan to make a casting jig/ mold. Then they just happily mold the JWL logo into the rim with no repercussions, as Taiwan has no legal punishment for copying another country's Engineering Standards markings.
And dont start with the if 200...blah blah blah. people have to use whats available to them. Id rather see someone using whats available to them to pursue their hobbies, then not at all because they cant afford some volks. There isnt a certain point at which you become entitled to race. Even if they are buying cheap rotas they still bring money to the sport, and more money/awareness brought to the sport helps everyone.
Also why is stock bodywork any different, it takes money away from the OEs? You have all the rules about you can knock off oes but not Work, or you cant race if you dont have 200 bucks to **** away, etc etc etc.
Its called competition, and in economics its a good thing (and yes its a good thing in wheel manufacturing also). A good company needs to stay ahead of it, if they cant let them die.
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12-30-2011, 12:18 AM
#45
Where did you get the OE Wheels?
Stock power?
I dont think CCW or Fikse do a chrome finish. Im pretty sure its all polished/machined. Fikse has some new finish called chroma but Im pretty sure its just bad *** polishing.
Fikse does some finish that resembles gunmetal, cant remeber the name of it though.
What are you running up front?
Ive alwasy liked the invo for vette fitments.
Stock power?
I dont think CCW or Fikse do a chrome finish. Im pretty sure its all polished/machined. Fikse has some new finish called chroma but Im pretty sure its just bad *** polishing.
Fikse does some finish that resembles gunmetal, cant remeber the name of it though.
What are you running up front?
Ive alwasy liked the invo for vette fitments.
I once tried to put my dad's C6 Z06 wheels on my car but I'd have to remove the ducting to install the rears so I gave up.
As far as power goes, I'm sitting at right about 415-420 wheel on a dynojet but the car is really rich.
Mods that I can remember:
- Thunder Racing 230/224 camshaft
- TPIS Long Tubes
- TPIS ported intake manifold
- Vararam intake
- Kooks (?can't remember) catted x-pipe
- Stock Ti exhaust
- MGW shifter
- Some impossible clutch (Spec 3+ or something)
- Factory lowering kit (!!!!!!!!!!stance!!!!!!!!!!)
The car moves pretty dece.
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12-30-2011, 12:30 AM
#47
Driving how? I like driving my Z06 a lot but it's a huge pain in the *** around town and the cabin gets extremely hot. I've put a ton of thought into selling the car in favor of a Supra but, to be honest, I couldn't ever find another as clean as it is and as well documented.
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12-30-2011, 12:39 AM
#48
Driving how? I like driving my Z06 a lot but it's a huge pain in the *** around town and the cabin gets extremely hot. I've put a ton of thought into selling the car in favor of a Supra but, to be honest, I couldn't ever find another as clean as it is and as well documented.
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12-30-2011, 09:21 PM
#51
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Get a ****** tune, Ive got a bigger cam, and I only get surge below 1500rpm. I need to do some touch up on the tune but Im lazy.
Ive seen Trex cammed cars with a spot on tune, that didnt drive much worse than stock, and a buddy of mine has a similar cam in his goat and after he worked on the tune alittle he has zero surge and can litteraly cruise art 1300 rpm smooth as silk.
If your worried about cabin temps, lay down some deadening. My floor gets hot because of the headers and trans, deadening stopped it.
Ive seen Trex cammed cars with a spot on tune, that didnt drive much worse than stock, and a buddy of mine has a similar cam in his goat and after he worked on the tune alittle he has zero surge and can litteraly cruise art 1300 rpm smooth as silk.
If your worried about cabin temps, lay down some deadening. My floor gets hot because of the headers and trans, deadening stopped it.
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12-31-2011, 01:30 PM
#54
Get a ****** tune, Ive got a bigger cam, and I only get surge below 1500rpm. I need to do some touch up on the tune but Im lazy.
Ive seen Trex cammed cars with a spot on tune, that didnt drive much worse than stock, and a buddy of mine has a similar cam in his goat and after he worked on the tune alittle he has zero surge and can litteraly cruise art 1300 rpm smooth as silk.
If your worried about cabin temps, lay down some deadening. My floor gets hot because of the headers and trans, deadening stopped it.
Ive seen Trex cammed cars with a spot on tune, that didnt drive much worse than stock, and a buddy of mine has a similar cam in his goat and after he worked on the tune alittle he has zero surge and can litteraly cruise art 1300 rpm smooth as silk.
If your worried about cabin temps, lay down some deadening. My floor gets hot because of the headers and trans, deadening stopped it.
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03-23-2012, 09:21 PM
#55
We should make this a "fake wheels with somewhat decent weights and usuable width's/offset's" thread.
VarrsToen TE-37 replicas now in 15x9 +25. I read that they are around 16lbs which is, of course, not perfect for a track car, but I would definitely rock these all day. The 15x8's are also bomb diggity.
VarrsToen TE-37 replicas now in 15x9 +25. I read that they are around 16lbs which is, of course, not perfect for a track car, but I would definitely rock these all day. The 15x8's are also bomb diggity.
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03-25-2012, 10:52 PM
#57
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Did you wake up one day and just decide to give up vagina, or have you been into ***** for as long as you can remember? I'm just curious, because I can't conceive of a situation in which I wouldn't be attracted to women, but you're obviously not turned on by them at all...
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03-25-2012, 11:17 PM
#58
The tunnels get hot as fawk in the summer. Hot enough I insulated with fat mat AND home bubble insulation, plus added more insulation on the tunnel plate. Helped some, but it was still hot at events and around town.
Once the CCW knock offs come in 15x9's, they will be added as DD beat around wheels. Really thinking about a set of 15x8/15x9 stagger set of XXR's as the beat around wheels now. That could let me sell 4 of the 15x9 6UL's and buy 2 15x10's for the rear.
BTW- I'm proud to run the knock off DURABLE touge run front lip. Its scraped and beat on EVERYTHING and has held up like a champ. I'd be on my third stupid GV lip by now.
Once the CCW knock offs come in 15x9's, they will be added as DD beat around wheels. Really thinking about a set of 15x8/15x9 stagger set of XXR's as the beat around wheels now. That could let me sell 4 of the 15x9 6UL's and buy 2 15x10's for the rear.
BTW- I'm proud to run the knock off DURABLE touge run front lip. Its scraped and beat on EVERYTHING and has held up like a champ. I'd be on my third stupid GV lip by now.
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03-25-2012, 11:19 PM
#59
1.) The K7 is a knockoff Wedssport SA-90
2.) Shiney wheels are light years easier to keep clean than white wheels. My old room mate had a set of white wheels on his daily, and he had to wipe them down EVERY morning or they looked like they had never been washed. I laughed at him every day.
3.) The TR Motorsports wheels are ugly, but they are their own designs, so I don't consider them a knockoff brand at all. Just like I didn't consider XXR to be a knockoff brand until they came out with these fake *** CCWs.
4.) Trap house joke is likely a joke.
5.) Fake parts are the bane of the import world, and fake parts pushers should be boycotted at all cost. If you don't want to buy a $2000 set of Volks, that's your choice (I certainly wouldn't/ couldn't), but when you could buy a set of Kosei K1s or 6ULs for only a little more than you'd have in a set of shitty knockoffs, it's beyond silly to do so. When you support the fake parts companies, you're taking money out of the pockets of the people who are actually capable of designing, testing and engineering new parts. Just like Hotshot Headers, they will eventually go out of business because it was so much cheaper to buy the Chinesium knockoffs that were so close to the originals they would fit on Hotshot's welding jigs. Then, once they're out of business, the Chinesium knockoff houses won't be able to do any real design work of their own, and the market will completely lose the niche that (insert legit parts company here) used to fill. It wouldn't be that great of a loss to the community if we lost one wheel manufacturer, but what if we lost Rays, Work and Enkei one after the other? Half of the manufacturing capability in the industry would disappear over night, and the cost of legit wheels would skyrocket.
There are real and tangible consequences to this, not just some faceless people on the internet trying to justify having bought expensive parts. Without the real parts companies, there is no tuning industry as we know it, and unless you're willing to sack up and spend a little more money on legit parts instead of rinky dink knockoff junk, eventually there won't be real parts companies.
2.) Shiney wheels are light years easier to keep clean than white wheels. My old room mate had a set of white wheels on his daily, and he had to wipe them down EVERY morning or they looked like they had never been washed. I laughed at him every day.
3.) The TR Motorsports wheels are ugly, but they are their own designs, so I don't consider them a knockoff brand at all. Just like I didn't consider XXR to be a knockoff brand until they came out with these fake *** CCWs.
4.) Trap house joke is likely a joke.
5.) Fake parts are the bane of the import world, and fake parts pushers should be boycotted at all cost. If you don't want to buy a $2000 set of Volks, that's your choice (I certainly wouldn't/ couldn't), but when you could buy a set of Kosei K1s or 6ULs for only a little more than you'd have in a set of shitty knockoffs, it's beyond silly to do so. When you support the fake parts companies, you're taking money out of the pockets of the people who are actually capable of designing, testing and engineering new parts. Just like Hotshot Headers, they will eventually go out of business because it was so much cheaper to buy the Chinesium knockoffs that were so close to the originals they would fit on Hotshot's welding jigs. Then, once they're out of business, the Chinesium knockoff houses won't be able to do any real design work of their own, and the market will completely lose the niche that (insert legit parts company here) used to fill. It wouldn't be that great of a loss to the community if we lost one wheel manufacturer, but what if we lost Rays, Work and Enkei one after the other? Half of the manufacturing capability in the industry would disappear over night, and the cost of legit wheels would skyrocket.
There are real and tangible consequences to this, not just some faceless people on the internet trying to justify having bought expensive parts. Without the real parts companies, there is no tuning industry as we know it, and unless you're willing to sack up and spend a little more money on legit parts instead of rinky dink knockoff junk, eventually there won't be real parts companies.
Did you wake up one day and just decide to give up vagina, or have you been into ***** for as long as you can remember? I'm just curious, because I can't conceive of a situation in which I wouldn't be attracted to women, but you're obviously not turned on by them at all...
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03-25-2012, 11:23 PM
#60
Touge Run stepped in and made a superior product. Kudos.
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