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Old 09-11-2006, 02:11 PM   #1
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Default Summit Point and lessons learned...

First off, pics just don't do the Shenandoah track any justice. It is simply an amazing track that will challenge any driver with elevation changes, blind turns, and off camber turns. Attached are two pics below, one of the track and one of my lowly miata next to my paddock mates with their Lotus Elise and Mercedes SL55 AMG (yes, they tracked both cars ).

Few things from my experience:
1) Car ran amazing. No overheating even with the big IC from Stripes's IC kit blocking the rad. It also held 15psi steady on the straights with just a cheap mbc and helper spring. I was able to keep up with almost anyone on the straights except a stock Z06 and modded 350Z (in my group that also included a STi, RX-8, modded MP3, no SL55 though...whew )

2) Stock 1.6 brakes with Axxis Ultimates and fresh ATE superblue are not enough for 200+rwhp. First two sessions of both days were okay with fresh fluid on both days, but by the end of the second session and the last two sessions of the day, I had some serious brake fade after the long straights. The 1.6 brakes are enough to lock the wheels, but I think they probably overheated b/c of their small size. In fact, they felt great on day 2 after a fluid change but then started to fade again as the day went on. My 1.8 setup is going on asap.

3) Only other issue was an oil leak that was fixed between days. I got black flagged for blowing a smoke screen out the back of my car like spyhunter. It seems that with my clocked turbo and straight down oil drain, the drain hose is even closer to the exhaust manifold so it started to crack and leak all over the exhaust causing a smoke screen. I put on a new hose and heat shielded it with some heat blanket, but it looks like I'll need to find a better long term solution or that hose will still get brittle over time.
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Summit Point and lessons learned...-dsc02312.jpg   Summit Point and lessons learned...-dsc02308.jpg  
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Old 09-11-2006, 02:26 PM   #2
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Nice! Looks like I really missed out. Do you have anymore pictures of your car on the track?
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Old 09-11-2006, 10:38 PM   #3
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wow awesome wish i could have gone. sounds like a blast.
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Old 09-11-2006, 11:45 PM   #4
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Haha, I saw you there on saturday around noon. There was a black one behind you and the Sl55 driver was a woman. Did you go on the parade laps?
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Old 09-11-2006, 11:55 PM   #5
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Sorry no pics on the track as it was a busy day and hard to ask other people to take pics. One guy was taking some video and did say he would e-mail me some clips. I hope they are good ones.

I did go on the parade lap and I had a blue spec miata up my *** the whole way. I guess he forgot it was a parade lap.

One other issue at the track that was pretty easy to fix. I kept having vac lines blowing off b/c the boost pressure so I had to zip tie or clamp every single one.

that7guy, were you on the track or just visiting? did you see my nice spin right in front of pit row?
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Old 09-11-2006, 11:59 PM   #6
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Dumping oil on the track is fun! My PCV failed on the main track. I didnt get black flagged, but the video from the car behind me makes me think I should have.
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Old 09-12-2006, 12:05 AM   #7
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Yea, the only time I could get out on the track was during the parade lap. Maybe next time. It is a very nice track. I really enjoyed thier "Carousel". I didnt see you spin but I did see the M3 who lost its nose and the MR2 who left shiny and came back with no paint on the passanger side, Ouch! I really need to get my SOLO licence.

Was the blue spec the one with the neon Orange Rims?
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Old 09-12-2006, 09:50 AM   #8
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You dont need a license for HDPE, just lots of money!
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Old 09-12-2006, 10:54 AM   #9
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Sounds like a good weekend to me- hanging with big dollar high power cars and no cops. I actually made my own turbo drain line with some thinwall tubing (like the stuff that the heater core line uses along the side of the block) that brings the oil away from the header and then connect a rubber oil hose.

For the record, I don't think anybody should go to a track event without putting on race pads if you're even the least bit excited about driving fast. It's a lot like have a set of track event tires IMO. Just part of the routine. Brake issues isn't very confidence inspiring and takes some fun out of the weekend. - rob
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Old 09-12-2006, 11:06 AM   #10
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I had race pads on and I ate right through them as well as boiling the fluid. I need something better when trying to stop in 150ft at 125mph.
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Old 09-12-2006, 11:59 AM   #11
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brain- Something IS wrong. We ran a 4hr race on hawk blues at Daytona using stock brakes stopping from 130mph twice a lap and at the end of we still had 1/3 pad left on the front and the rotors looked perfect. I was braking just past 150ft coming off the high bank into the infield.

The last SM I raced was a 1.6 running stock brakes with hawk blues stopping from 115mph in 110ft, and after the very next turn from 110mph in 100ft and we used less than half the pads and rotors looked great.

You're running 30 min. sessions max at track events, you shouldn't be having brake problems like that. In the 4 hr race we ran ducting, but the SM doesn't.

The car is capable, so it's either mechanical or driver. Have you been through everything in the braking system? What about your braking technique? Are you adding a progressive increase of pedal pressure? Jumping on the brakes too hard too soon will actually cause them to over heat in your braking zone. - rob
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Old 09-12-2006, 12:38 PM   #12
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Blue spec miata was not the one with the orange rims.

As for the brakes, I agree with the race pads. I had recently put on a new set of ultimates so I figured that I'd stick with them at this track day, and if I didn't have the 1.8 setup, I would probably just go to a dedicated race pad for track days. I had plenty of pad left even at the end of the second day and the brakes felt great with fresh fluid so I figure it was a mix of the novice driver (aka poor braking technique) and small non-race pads overheating the fluid.

On a side note, speed bleeders ROCK! I could bleed all four corners at the track in under 30 min.

One other thing that I've always wondered for people who use race pads, but don't trailer the car. Do you switch to race pads before the track day and bed them in before the track day? Or change at the track and have an alternate bedding procedure since you don't have overnight to let everything cool? Do you have to rebed the stock pads when going back? Or do you have a set of stock pads bedded to one set of rotors and a set of race pads bedded to another set of rotors and do a complete swap?
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Old 09-12-2006, 01:03 PM   #13
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I had rotors that I swapped with my race pads. Installed them at home before going to the track. I used to have a showroom stock Miata that ran hawk blues which I also drove (legally) on the street. Granted they don't stop like stock pads for street use, but it's like pulling a trailer, you compensate for it. - rob
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Old 09-12-2006, 02:31 PM   #14
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I guess I suck at braking then. I'm soft in and soft out. They were EBC redstuff and worked great for 2 1/2 sessions. The next day they kept fading and I was using more and more pressure to stop, by the end of the day I had very little pad left and hot spots on the rotors. Brand new pads and fluid (ate super blue)
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Old 09-12-2006, 06:01 PM   #15
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Did they work great the next day in the first session? I wonder if you glazed them at the end of the first day. I remember hearing about people having problems with hawk blues tearing up their rotors. Turned out that they weren't getting the pads hot enough, so instead of great a good friction surface with the pad, they were glazing the pad and "shaving" the rotor. End feeling was "bad brakes" and premature wear on the parts. I can't speak for the EBCs- never run them. I can speak for hawk blues and blacks. The blacks wear quicker but give excellent feedback through pedal pressure. The blues are more grabby but last much longer. I started with the blacks and moved to the blues as I became more confident in my braking.

Braking pressure needs to ramp up similar to the progression of a skateboard quarter pipe. Think of the ramp as being a chart signifying the rise in pressure. And if you've ever skateboarded, think of the Gload when you make the transition from flat to vertical. It's very similar. This process synchronizes the heating of the pad with the transfer of load to the front, which is in turn increasing traction to the front tires. - rob
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