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Old 07-22-2010, 02:34 PM   #41
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Wrong. My mom YOUR mom
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Old 07-22-2010, 02:54 PM   #42
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I haven't needed any kind of certificate, just proof of recent experience. That being said I prefer having an instructor, as I can always learn something.
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Old 07-22-2010, 02:59 PM   #43
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he wasnt solo.
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Old 07-22-2010, 03:06 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
he wasnt solo.
Wow I thought that was a buddy or something. I heard no advice or comments. Well I guess at 50mph the instructor wouldn't think you'd find a way to slide the car into the wall, and subsequently turn over.
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Old 07-22-2010, 03:07 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rider384 View Post
By max out I meant hit 80-85% duty cycle... I should probably clarify that. I was thinking about that earlier today.

EDIT: it's also more around 10.5psi
You need a fuel pump.
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Old 07-22-2010, 03:14 PM   #46
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Ideally, yes, everyone driving solo on track will have at least some experience, though the threshold can vary. Most HPDE organizers have records of who has run events with them and how often. If you sign up in the advanced/solo group with some organization you haven't run with before, some of them will ask for references to verify your experience level, some may require a check ride with an instructor to sign you off, etc. Then with other groups you might be able to get away with lying and saying you have 40 days of seat time and they might just let you loose. In that case you should pray the corner workers see and black flag your dumb noob *** before you kill yourself trying to keep up with the men. Most drivers get their first taste of solo seat time when they're still in the novice group, after demonstrating enough competency that their instructor signs them off towards the end of the weekend. The BMW driver in the vid was nowhere near ready for that.
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Old 07-22-2010, 03:18 PM   #47
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I went solo my second track day.
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Old 07-22-2010, 03:31 PM   #48
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I always heard "If you start to spin, clutch in" from every instructor I ever heard. It allows the drive wheels to quickly match the speed of the surface they are traveling across to regain traction. But if you have no feel for the car and/or if you wait too long to react you are fucked no matter what.
The tires have no traction regardless of what speed they are traveling - they are sliding sideways. Clutching in will transfer a bunch of weight to the front wheels, which promotes a big nasty pendulum effect.

If the car slides, you put your right foot down as hard as you possibly can. You want to get the rear tires spinning if you can so there's no aggressive snapback when the car does regain traction, and you want to transfer as much weight onto the rear tires as you can. The only way to do that is to start accelerating. The biggest noob mistake in the book is to lift off the throttle or clutch in when they start to slide a car.

Your instructors are right on "in a spin, 2 feet in", but the operative words there are "in a spin" - once you are beyond 90 degrees there's pretty much no way you can save it (unless it's AWD and you are a ******* badass). If there's no way you can save the slide, then you want to lock up the tires to prevent crossing back across the track or snapping into a wall (and to make yourself predictable for the guy behind you who is trying to avoid you).

That curb upset the dude's M3 a lot more than it should have. Not sure whether it was wet (although it probably was judging by the way they slid across the grass), and he didn't even attempt to countersteer in the slightest when the car let go.
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Old 07-22-2010, 03:53 PM   #49
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^^^ this.
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Old 07-22-2010, 04:11 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Savington View Post
If the car slides, you put your right foot down as hard as you possibly can... The biggest noob mistake in the book is to lift off the throttle or clutch in when they start to slide a car.
i win.
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Old 07-23-2010, 03:30 PM   #51
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So I've watched it a number of times and it's still surprising he hits the wall. He obviously didn't handle the tail kicking out well, but it doesn't look like it took much for the tail to kick out.

I wonder if all M3 drivers insist on driving in the wet with dry tires - this guy crashes almost exactly the same way. Low speed, shift into second, pow.

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Old 07-23-2010, 03:35 PM   #52
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Thank god, you guys were starting to make me doubt everything I knew about car control, thank you for setting my mind at ease Sav. Y'all need to stop being so scared of the gas pedal.
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Old 07-23-2010, 03:59 PM   #53
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Sav- The word you are looking for is "snap oversteer" It's a bitch... and can sometimes be used to a drivers advantage in a tight situation.
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Old 07-23-2010, 04:37 PM   #54
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Heres another one similar to it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQLM-K9TwWM


Went in too hot on the esses, trying to catch that Viper!
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Old 07-23-2010, 04:41 PM   #55
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Yeah. Target lock on the car in front of you == doom.
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Old 07-23-2010, 04:49 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flier129 View Post
Heres another one similar to it.

Went in too hot on the esses, trying to catch that Viper!

"Please don't hit the wall please don't hit the wall, ****!!! Goddamnit"
Hiliarious
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Old 07-23-2010, 05:10 PM   #57
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At least he knew what he didn't want to do... Haha
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Old 07-23-2010, 05:24 PM   #58
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It was a little too fast but the real problem was that he didn't stay far enough left on the entry and then early apexed turn 7. There is a very short section between 7 and 8 where you should be steering dead straight for a quick instant as you come over the crest. He screwed up the line and was still steering right, and as he came over the crest the rear unloaded and around he went. That turn is not a very common place for offs at VIR, but obviously if you have enough horsepower and inexperience you can get into trouble just about anywhere.

The uphill esses are awesome, my favorite section of VIR. With stock power I'm flat out from turn 4 all the way to 10. I frequently have higher powered cars start to approach in my rear view towards the end of bridge straight, but then fade away because they can't hang through the esses. Makes me feel good, at least until they catch me on the back straight. Turbo should fix that.
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Old 07-23-2010, 06:13 PM   #59
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Help me out here. If you screw up the turn and unsettle the car then lift off the throttle you will have lift throttle oversteer, which he demonstrated. It works just like yanking the e-brake. If you stand on the throttle you will definitely spin as was stated. If you normalize the speed of the wheels to that of the road while countersteering the back end will tuck back in and follow the front in the direction of travel. It won't work if you are already at a ridiculous slip angle because you will snap back, as you said, and pendulum back the other way. But if he was more in tune with his car and didn't do several other things wrong as well he could have saved it that way. He was slow to react. He could have saved it but he lift throttle oversteered AND didn't countersteer.

Side note: I know from driving roundy round cars that with them you NEVER countersteer because they are only designed to turn left and will take you to the wall if you countersteer right. You always make it spin to the inside instead of countersteering. Doesn't apply here but interesting nonetheless.
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Old 07-23-2010, 06:20 PM   #60
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when you lift to put weight to front tires that have traction, rear continues to follow the direction it was travel and rotates around the tires with traction. lifting is bad.
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