Indianapolis dyno day.
 

I am contemplating the idea of renting a loading dyno close to Indianapolis (www.fathousefab.com)'s dyno in late February/early March (after tax refunds) and hiring a knowledgeable member from this forum to fly out to Indy and help us tune a few Miatas.

Nothing is written on stone as of now, but I would like to know who would be interested on something like this. This would not just be a dyno pull but an actual tune.

I can either rent the dyno for one day or 2 days depending on how many people are interested and the tuner's availability. I have not finalized the details with the tuner but I believe he could tune each car in around 2-3 hours.

My idea would be to have between 4 and 5 cars a day. Hhammerly and my car are included in this equation. If we rent the dyno for 1 day we would need only 2 or 3 more people committed.

If I get enough interest and we can work the details out, I would secure your spot after sending me a non refundable deposit, after all I have to make sure I cover dyno rental and tuner costs if you don't show up. I have a limited number of spots (max 8-10 cars if we rent it for 2 days).

I will keep talking to the tuner during the next few days and if he gives me the ok, I'll reveal his name. I will also post prices for the tunes.

Possibly interested. If the Miata is still around, definitely interested.

If it's not, i might want to show up anyways if the MX6 is done to get a tune roughed in myself.

Sounds good. I have a guy from Fort Wayne running microsquirt on his sts Miata interested too.

I'd be interested. Indy isn't too long of a drive.

I'd be interested but I'd like to know who the tuner is and what it'll cost. I'm assuming these sessions would just be tuning for power runs?

Chiburbian, I'd split a hotel room with ya. Indy aint too far of a drive.

I have to talk to the tuner and find out exactly what he plans on tuning. I was thinking about timing and maybe a little accel enrichments, but accel enrichments should be pretty close to perfect on a street tune. I know Harold wants a e85 and 93 octane map, but that is probably going to cost extra.
I will price out the options as soon as the tuner gets back to me.

To me the things I am most interested in are in order:
Closed loop idle with A/C
Closed Loop Boost Control
Closed Loop EGO
Spark Map
Accel Enrich
Ensure Knock Sensor is working properly

As you can see, some of this doesn't even need a dyno and may be able to be done in a parking lot with multiple people working on their own idles with the "tuner" going car to car helping with adjustments. Classroom style...

Maybe we should street tune on a Saturday and dyno the next day on a Sunday. I am still waiting to hear from the tuner, once he pm's me Ill get back to you.

I as well need a tune for better driveability, not so much making tons of power.

It may be difficult to street tune turbo miatas that time of the year, you never know how much snow and ice will be on the roads, looking back at when i got the car running early this year, i could hardly touch the trottle without spinning the tires, and i can't even fit my snow tires now with the brakes that are on the car; He can probabby do one idle tune during each dyno car change...
Another thing that may be helpfull would be to send him each cars tune a log and build sheet so he can take a look at potential trouble spots like knock control idle settings etc. before he gets here.

Yep, depends on what sort of winter we get. Could be 80 degrees that day! :bowrofl:

Ask Braian what traction was like for me the other day... That right there is why i parked the car.

Bros,
I didn't check my PMs for a while, but I'm here and listening, potentially interested in helping out. I'm a little rusty but planning to tune about 5 cars here in December, so that will get me back up to speed. I should also note, I know how to work an MD-240, I do not really know how to work a modern Dynojet.
Closed-loop idle with AC: I've never really been happy with my idle tunes, especially with a light flywheel. However, I was able to get every car I tuned to idle reasonably well and not die in traffic.
Closed-loop boost control: I've never jacked with this, but it should be pretty easy to get right. The last few times I jacked with this, it was "not ready" in terms of development, MAT corrections were way off.
Closed-loop EGO: No problem, super-easy
E85/93: how are you switching fuel sources?
Spark: This is what takes most of the time.
Accel: TPS based is easy-breezy, EAE takes time but worth it.
Knock: Depending on your hardware, knock doesn't work to well in my experience unless it's changed dramatically in the last 12 months. You'll find that a ton of tuners shockingly tune off knock sensor readings, which I think is preposterous. I use electronic det-cans religiously. You'll find that many tuners put these cars near detonation or on it and let the OEM knock-sensors pull spark angle, which is something I'm not cool with because our knock systems are a bit archaic and frankly, that's not the way OEM nor the way real racecars are tuned. With det-cans you can hear the engine rhythm and can pick-up on syncopated-rhythm before it turns-into knock (typically this means uneven flame propagation, different from the more desirable turbulent flame-front).

In general, NA cars with fixed cams are super easy and fast to tune, less than an hour. FI cars are fairly straight forward as well, but there is a lot more stress involved because things go "bang" a lot easier; please tell me you guys went with lower-static compression builds. VVT tunes are either super-easy or super difficult, dear god please tell me you guys are on MS3x and not using VVTuner for VVT control.

Are all you guys at 250whp and above on 6-speeds? Dyno tuning with load is really, really hard on transmissions and I come from the school of thought where the exhaust glows yellow, for a while before I send you off with the car.

I'll let Btabor go from here and discuss the money stuff. I want to get a fair price that makes everyone happy, gets a bunch of cars tuned, yet still cover my travel expense and make it worth the trip and worth the stress involved. I'll teach you guys everything I know. You can rest assured that I'll get your car off the dyno and it will be ready for HARD track use, 6th gear on the backstretch at Mid-Ohio with an orange turbo lap after lap. You may have to jack with the idle/AC value in the summer, maybe the closed-loop idle tune as well.

-Trey

Can I get a list of each car's computer, aspiration type (note VVT), and target whp?

Also, Stars > Blue Jackets

I'm a tentative.

Car is a 95
Brain-built DIYPNP w/ GSlender stuff, VICS, EBC, etc
9.0:1 forged shits, BP4W head
Currently running on 95 triggers, trying to update to proper NB1 stuff beforehand
5spd
Target whp: Everything the little 2554 can give. Everywhere. Looking for a rally-style EBC spike/taper tune. If the 2554 can do 250cfm, i want that 250cfm from 2000rpm to 7500rpm.

is this the car that you sold last week?

Buyer flaked. Not entirely his fault i suppose. His buyer for his race car flaked, so he didn't have the money, and we both got the shaft.

Sooo... fuck it. Let's ride.

In my case, light flywheel. I want to learn as much as I can on idle tuning for when summer rolls around.

Well, supposedly it's getting good now. Now this is your chance to jack with it some more.

Great!

Personally, I don't want to "tune" off of the in-car knock sensor. I mainly want it to accurately tell me when things are going poorly and perhaps throw a pre-emptive CEL and do something that preserves the engine. Mainly a fail-safe in case I get bad gas or something goes haywire.

MS3x with EBC
Turbo
2001 with VTCS (ICK!) and VVT (10:1?)
6-speed
As many HP as is safe on stock internals. My goal though is consistantly hitting my targets via boost PSI throughout as wide an RPM range as possible. I have a spare motor that will rebuilt for spring of 2016 install that will be 300hp+ capable e85 build and this tune will be my base settings for when e85 is unavailable.

idle with ms3x is super easy, ac or not, and it is rock solid.
the knock sensor stuff has been improved quite a bit, but I'd still agree with hustler that I wouldn't tune with it.

This sounds like its gonna be really cool. Make sure to post up plots and pics/vids when done, I want to see what hustley can squeeze out of your cars :)

Business question... Would it be cheaper to rent on a weekday or a weekend? I can see two sides of this. One says that during the weekend the dyno time is cheaper because it's not displacing other projects. Other side is that staff isn't normally there on weekends so paying them overtime rate.

Personally I am available any day of the week so I am game either way. I just have to request time off in advance. I know not everyone is so flexible, I am just putting it out there that I am able to be there say, on a Friday to get my stuff in so I don't take time away from anyone who can only be there on a weekend. Obviously this all hinges on the dyno and on Hustler.

By the way, I prefer mid March at the earliest. I don't mind cold, but we have had some icy and snowy Februarys as well as some of that continuing into March...

My guess is that Fathouse himself would be there, and i somewhat doubt cost will differ between weekday/weekend. He's just a cool dude that likes messing with cars.


And has an epic beard.

I can't read that name without thinking of this commercial...

Rev built Ms2e
2005 MSM w/ stock turbo
Stock motor 650cc FIC injectors
If the day is not within the next month or so, the car will be getting a 5spd swap with a FM happy meal and 10lb flywheel over winter. I'm not sure if this will effect current tune drastically.

But my current street tune is pretty solid, I'd be looking to work on some simple things like accel enrichments and adding some timing up top and maybe cold start settings. anything below 60 degrees car cranks quite a lot.

I have to talk to everyone and decide what day would be best. I was thinking about flying Trey here on Saturday and tune Sunday. The dyno is very close to the airport. Mid March would be good. Hopefully it won't snow that late. If everything works out and I can arrange everything I will most likely need a deposit from everyone who states they will come. More on that later

I worry about relying on air travel the day of the dyno event. If Trey is willing, flying him in on Friday night is much less risky. If there are air travel problems it would suck to be spending dyno rental time waiting around.

1st class on Emirates or nothing.

I have a 99 with the following mods:
Stock head.
Mazda Speed cam
8.6:1 supertech pistons
H beam roods
ACL bearings
Oil pump gears
VVT motor oil pan and mains brace ARP hardware
ID 1000 injectors with dual feed rail and rising rate regulator Deichwerks fuel pump.
WA IC
Skunk TB
GM coils
Coolant RR, Koyo 55mm rad
Tubular manifold w-4 EGT's
EFR 6258, 3" exhaust
Gauges Oil pressure, oil and water temp, fuel pressure, boost, AFR.
Flex fuel sensor
6 speed 3:90 rear
Light flywheel stage 2 flying Miata clutch
Do not have an oil cooler yet.

I would like:
A safe tune for 93 pump and E85 and for the MS to automatically blend tables between the two, i don't care how much HP it makes as long as it is reliable.
Boost by gear to reduce boost on first and second gear maybe on 4th to keep the transmission alive.
I would like max boost and low boost maps to work (switches are in)
I can send you my tune and data log before hand.
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1417560503

^^ That looks really nice Harold. Can't wait to see/hear it.

I want to be upfront with everyone. I initially contacted Hustler to tune our cars, I think he was busy and was unable to respond my PM for a few days. On the mean time, I got impatient and asked Ben from DIYautotune if he could fly and tune as well.

He offered the following:

"Braian,

It should be possible to tune 4 running Miatas in 10 hours. 5 might be tough but doable if all the cars are ready to go. We would need to set the expectation that the cars need to come in well running & sorted, IE this would not be a trouble shooting session as if we spend significant time on diagnostics, we could easily run out of time to tune all the cars.

I will send Scott Clark to tune. Cost will be $275 per car plus $500 to cover travel (airfare, rental car, hotel, etc). I need minimum commitment of 4 cars with 75% deposit and 25% at completion. This is well under what we'd normally charge for Scott, but as you probably know I have a turbo Miata so I have a lot of love for you guys."


I will break it down, this is the price for 4 cars.
Dyno rental time= $800/ 4 = $200 each
Tuning= $275 each
Tuner fly in cost= $125

Each person would pay $400 for tuning and $200 for the dyno.
You each will have to send me 75% of $400 ($300 to lock in the tuner) and I would like 50% of the dyno rental time ($100) so I can lock in the date.
Total deposit= $400
Balance = $600.

I am shooting for mid March.
A few things, if you pay a deposit, this money is non refundable. If you are not serious, don't even think about it. If your car blows up the day before the session, too bad but I have to pay this guy and the dyno rental cost. If it snows like crazy and you can't make it, sorry but its not my problem. Once you pay a deposit, the money does not go back to you no matter what happens to you or your car so be very thoughtful about your commitment.
Now, if we set a date and the Fathouse dyno breaks or something like that nature happens, there is another dyno in Indy (cozzolino) but its not a loading dyno.


After all that rumbling, I would still like to hear what Hustler has to offer, I am by no means excluding him. I want everyone to vote on this.

Thanks.

A little more than I was expecting but I'm still in.

Thanks, it has been fun building this car, not so much fun dealing with the self inflicted wounds...
BTW i spent more than that at Pure Tuning a few months ago and Aaron is knolagable and a very nice guy but not a megasquirt specialist...
I also know that my tune is more complicated than most due to the E85 - flex and will pick up the cost of any extra time i run to get it tuned.
So i guess we have 3 so far?

FYI, Scott Clark's tuning resume includes the world's fastest street legal vehicle, one of the Street Outlaws cars (possibly a 2nd coming up), multiple world record land speed cars, Drag Week winners, Engine Masters Competition podium winning engines, a Riddler Award winner, etc etc etc et all. He's a rock star tuner. We really only send him out for high profile stuff that will generate media attention, but our roots are deep in the Miata community, especially turbo Miata, so we're trying to help out here. I think collectively the employes of DIY own something like 8 Miatas. In all fairness, I probably will not be able to send him out for Miatas again.

HHammerly, you're essentially looking at 2 tunes, so I think it's fair to ask you to pay a little more for the tuner's time. And probably cap it at 4 total, as yours is going to take a lot more time than a single fuel tune. We'll call it "4 and a half cars". We can work that out.

James and I are ensuring that the new flex fuel features are working right. Our in-house dyno had to go down for service, and we had to order in parts from Sweden to get it back to 100%. It's repaired now, but it left a substantial backlog. You will definitely want to be running on the new firmware as soon as we can release it.

If you guys decide that you prefer to use Trey, my feelings aren't hurt. Just let me know.

I'll fill in last minute if you guys have someone drop, but my car runs well enough to not deny someone else a great opportunity. I'm perfectly happy to hang out, watch, and be a knowledge sponge. :)

I can't belive this is happening. I've been looking for a tuner around here in Indianapolis for a long time. We, Hhammerly and I are stoked about this opportunity!
Do you have a specific date on when you could send Scott? Would mid March work?

Every dyno shop I have been to has had the same prices during the week and on the weekend.

I'm not going to be able to do it. So the opportunity is all yours! I might still see if I can drive down and hang out though.

Ok guys I need one more person.

So far is
1) My car
2) Hhammerly
3) Chiburbian

This is only going to happen once!

Use Scott Clark instead of me, lol. I'm just a punk with a computer, he is a man...or Ben. I'd rather ride my bicycle those days anyway. :)

I am fine with the simple stuff, but this is growing into something that's a bit outside of my expertise. Besides, I don't like cars anymore, anyway.

I don't see it that way. Thanks to you and Joe Perez amongst others my car runs. You are always helpful and I appreciate that.

Looks like I gather the 4th person but he is running Hydra. I will ask Ben if this is ok and will get back to you guys.

This is awesome, great presence in and around the mt community. I've already tuned the racecar at Cozzolino and my turbo build is ongoing and not to be dyno ready by March but I'd still like to come out and learn/observe so keep me in the loop Braian

Hello guys, I wanted everyone to know we have 4 people interested at the moment. Ben will ask Scott about setting a date and we will go from there. This is happening!

Great!

In anticipation I have decided to make a few upgrades hardware wise.

Improved:
New Megasquirt 3.0 board to replace old 3.0 board that had a few blown traces and some strange voltage gremlins.

NEW:
All new charge piping
Fab9 Stage 1 Intercooler
Turbosmart Vee Port Pro blow off valve
3" Exhaust from FM cast turbine outlet back (3" cat)

I also have radiator ducting going in that should box the intercooler to the radiator and seal off any unwanted air to the engine bay to keep it a low pressure zone. This shouldn't affect the dyno pull but it needed to be done.

Ben got back to me, he said March 13th would be the date. That is on a Friday. Chiburbian, does that work for you?
I just called the dyno place and the owner was not there but he will call me this afternoon to set it up.

Talked to fathouse fabrications and we have the dyno March 13th from 10am to 6pm, additional hours cost $100/hour. Lets plan on having 2 hours each, if you need more time you will have to pay extra.

Thanks!

Even if we're not having our cars tuned, we're cool to come hang out, learn things, and bring beer if that's cool with people?

Sent you some $$$
Thank you for getting this organized and making it happen Braian, great job!!!

I don't see why not! We can get squeelers for lunch delivered maybe?

I'm a little worried about the 2 hours dyno per person. It usually takes a few minutes to put each car on and I'd feel much better with more tim with Scott even if it was off the dyno. I feel like that will leave no time for lunch or breaks for Scott...

I sujgest getting the first car on the dyno on thursday evening
and i suspect that we will be runing long friday evening.
My car is getting two tunes w a fuel change in between and i dont know if they will let us add or remove fuel while strapped down on the dyno...

I'm sorry, initally the dyno place told me 10 hours the first time and then they backed it down to 8 hours. That would bring the price up $50 each per person. I can refund your money if you don't want to do it or pay for your extra $50. It is my fault. But like Harold said, I'm going to actually go to the shop and talk to the owner and see if we can strap my car in Thursday evening. My car should be easier to tune I just need a good spark map and acceleration enrichments but those are almost perfect now.

I am ok with paying for more time personally and I will pay for more if I feel like I can get value out of it.... Can you find out from the shop what is the MAX amount of hours they are willing to run the dyno, and find out from Scott how much time (on dyno or off dyno) he is willing to spend on each car for his allotment.

It took me almost two hours to do the open loop boost map on my car with some playing around with closed loop as well. I was controlling the tuning and I am sure Scott will be much more efficient with his time than I was. Also, find out if Scott would like us to give him any logs or MSQs ahead of time? Is there anything that we can give him in advance that will speed things up?

By the way, I am not backing out, I am just trying to get my money's worth... I can pay a guy locally less and get more "time" but it's the experience specifically with megasquirt that I am after.

You have valid points. What Ben quoted me was $275 for each car for a total of 10 hours so I assume 2.5 hours each. The shop can open early and run until late if necessary. He can do 12 hours if necessary maybe more if we catch him on a good mood. I will ask Ben all those questions but him looking at out current tunes won't probably be needed until January/February. I'll keep you posted.

Stopped by the diyautotune booth today at PRI and Scott wasn't there, but his co-workers were as well as one of the cars he tuned that was in an adjacent booth. Nothing but praise about Scott's work from around the show as if anyone needed more encouragement

I Am planing to attend on Saturday as well and DYI's booth is high on my list of stops.

There's an exocet in the MS booth.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1418522071
Met Ben and Scott today at PRI, super nice guys, cannot wait till March rolls arownd...
BTW I REALLY WANT AN EXOCET NOW

Getting anxious...

Car hasn't been driven since November, maybe earlier. I am half worried something will happen and I won't get the car running in time.

Scary!

Is it not running? You have 5 weeks to get it done!

I have to pull the motor back out and finish the coolant re-route fix, then plug it all back together. Plus, I am building a spare megasquirt 3.0 board that I plan on swapping with my current mainboard, plus I have a DIYbob that I am doing as well. At this point I don't know if I have time to do it all in time. I also need to do some street tuning before the event as well as I have changed quite a bit since then and now.

Why don't you get the engine fixed and leave the megasquirt for later?