Redline Time Attack/Super Lap Battle rebuild thread - Page 22 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 11-17-2009, 12:29 PM   #421
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He was tuned on the dyno, though.
Look who's tuning it though...not Savinatron. I also don't see the det cans out.

I'm not trying to rub salt in a wound, but at those extreme cylinder pressures at 400whp, very minor det becomes cataclysmic in an instant.
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Old 11-17-2009, 01:27 PM   #422
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Wonder if the intake manifold had anything to do with less water getting to # 3

Matt, when you lost your motor did you have a stock intake manifold on it?
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Old 11-17-2009, 02:17 PM   #423
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Wonder if the intake manifold had anything to do with less water getting to # 3

Matt, when you lost your motor did you have a stock intake manifold on it?
The first thing I said when I saw Matts motor with #3 cooked was "time to put a water nozzle on each intake runner.

He has the 1st-gen 1.8 intake plenum.
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Old 11-17-2009, 02:27 PM   #424
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This makes me want to just pull my 2.0L and throw in an LS1 for the track car. These threads make me paranoid. Sorry to hear about this Andrew. At least it is good to see you motivated to get it fixed asap and get back out there. I would probably sulk a little.
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Old 11-17-2009, 02:50 PM   #425
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This makes me want to just pull my 2.0L and throw in an LS1 for the track car. These threads make me paranoid. Sorry to hear about this Andrew. At least it is good to see you motivated to get it fixed asap and get back out there. I would probably sulk a little.
can't do that without accusump.
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Old 11-17-2009, 02:56 PM   #426
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The first thing I said when I saw Matts motor with #3 cooked was "time to put a water nozzle on each intake runner.

He has the 1st-gen 1.8 intake plenum.

Which do not have even flow to each cylinder, right?
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Old 11-17-2009, 03:04 PM   #427
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The first thing I said when I saw Matts motor with #3 cooked was "time to put a water nozzle on each intake runner.
Word. I cannot speak as to the certainty of WI distribution problems causing this engine's failure. But I strongly believe it contributed to mine. I am going with WI nozzles on each runner. More discussion here:

https://www.miataturbo.net/forum/t41131/

+1 on the cylinder pressures making the engine riskier for detonation damage. Even at 7500 RPM, 300-400 RWHP out of a 1.8L 4-cyl takes a lot of cylinder pressure.
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Old 11-17-2009, 03:14 PM   #428
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Sucks that the motor went, could of probly put up a faster hot lap time for Mod FR.

At least you have all the resources to get a motor put together and back in. Then you should have something for the competition .

Sav, I think your motivation has sparked a lot of other motivation for everyone else. I've already tallied up cost of a v-band setup and on the short-term I've started to work on my 50 dollar motor so I can at least get my car running again.

Keep it going Sav, you give the miata community high hopes!
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Old 11-17-2009, 03:41 PM   #429
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So this is due to detonation. Meaning you ran too much timing advance? How many degrees of timing did you run? If its not a secret that is.
My map is scaled to 260kpa, and I run around 20 degrees in the 260kpa cells (22.8psi). This motor has been sucking 100 octane from day 1.

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Were your AFRs spot on on the track? Did you use detcans while tuning? What kind? Are you running a knocksensor that pulls timing? I've got some headphones to my knocksensems that I use during tuning, but no active pulling in MSPNP.
AFRs are mid 11s, usually 11.6-11.8:1. I have a set of mechanical detcans, but with no exhaust they are virtually useless.

I'll probably step up to a 5 gallon/hr nozzle in the water, move it further back, and monitor AITs. Part of me thinks that a contributing factor here was the blown coupler Saturday, which skyrocketed the IATs all day and caused this detonation. We then cranked the boost up Sunday and lit the fuse I had laid the day before.
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Old 11-17-2009, 03:44 PM   #430
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What ECU are you on?
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Old 11-17-2009, 04:06 PM   #431
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What ECU are you on?
oldschool mspnp
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Old 11-17-2009, 04:14 PM   #432
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Part of me thinks that a contributing factor here was the blown coupler Saturday, which skyrocketed the IATs all day and caused this detonation. We then cranked the boost up Sunday and lit the fuse I had laid the day before.
I think your intercooler is too small to begin with. You need to get a Palm and start logging.

I put a piece of cardbaord over my FMIC when tuning and in one pull was able to make 230*f on one pull and the max the sensor will read id is 275*. I made a minor adjustment to the top end of my CLT/IAT "curve" to get AFR back in line and I assume that adjusted spark too. Time to start putting those little thermo-temp stickers on every heat exchanger (calipers, radiator, fmic, oil cooler, hood, brake reservoir, trans, rear-end, and who knows what I've overlooked.

I wonder how DIY determined what the IAT/CLT curve table should be?
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Old 11-17-2009, 04:17 PM   #433
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Time to start putting those little thermo-temp stickers on every heat exchanger (calipers, radiator, fmic, oil cooler, hood, brake reservoir, trans, rear-end, and who knows what I've overlooked.
Put one on your head. You're feverish.
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Old 11-17-2009, 04:19 PM   #434
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Put one on your head. You're feverish.
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Old 11-17-2009, 04:20 PM   #435
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I wonder how DIY determined what the IAT/CLT curve table should be?
It's mainly for heatsoak; you tend to decay it out past 2000rpm.

Are you using the iat/clt related ignition feature? I can pull 1 degree of timing every X*F when MAP is above Y kPa and IAT Above Z*F
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Old 11-17-2009, 04:27 PM   #436
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Are you using the iat/clt related ignition feature? I can pull 1 degree of timing every X*F when MAP is above Y kPa and IAT Above Z*F
I had this, then disabled it because I had no idea what X, Y and Z to choose. So what are meaningful numbers?
Pull 1* every 1-2 degrees when MAP>atmo and IAT> 95F? 120?
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Old 11-17-2009, 04:32 PM   #437
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beats me. I'd probably do something like 1 every 10*F above 140kPa when over 120*F AIT...something like that. Would need to see what AITs get to after a few laps, and where they get hot, ya know?
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Old 11-17-2009, 04:44 PM   #438
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Are you using the iat/clt related ignition feature? I can pull 1 degree of timing every X*F when MAP is above Y kPa and IAT Above Z*F
bingo. I also did pulls at 210*f CLT to make sure I heard no detonation.
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Old 11-17-2009, 04:44 PM   #439
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My map is scaled to 260kpa, and I run around 20 degrees in the 260kpa cells (22.8psi). This motor has been sucking 100 octane from day 1.

AFRs are mid 11s, usually 11.6-11.8:1. I have a set of mechanical detcans, but with no exhaust they are virtually useless.
Crazy! Even with WI this sounds a little like ragged edge tuning?

Here's what I've been running lately. Stock 95 long block at 18.4 psi from an intercooled whipple s/c on 93 octane.

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I know that I'm running half a point more compression, and 7 less octane rating, but... It's as aggressive as I've been able to go. Any more and I get hints of detonation. I'd like my motor to live a little longer so that's where it stays. Once I get a built motor together, though I hope it takes the timing that you're using.

I know that the 6.2 degrees of advance I'm running at 220 kpa sounds unusual, but you've got to do whatever it takes to make sure that detonation is at bay. Cuz God knows we don't want to turn down the boost!

Also above about 190 kpa don't be afraid to go richer. Right now I'm aiming for about 10.8 AFRs, but I've gone as fat as 10.5 in rare surcumstances. Guys that are used to tuning N/A setups can be timid about going this rich just because, again it sounds unusual. But it's all about keeping the motor together.

Who's pistons are you using, and do you know the dish cc's?

Thanks for a great build thread! It's been a sweet read.
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Old 11-17-2009, 04:51 PM   #440
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bingo. I also did pulls at 210*f CLT to make sure I heard no detonation.
How? What setting?
IAT/CLT related menu only add timing based on CLT and pulls based on IAT?
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