Hey guys. Noob from South FL here. Some background info and turbo questions. - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


Meet and Greet Say Hi. De-noob yourself.

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 07-17-2012, 06:00 PM   #1
Junior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (4)
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Ft Lauderdale, FL
Posts: 76
Total Cats: 0
Default Hey guys. Noob from South FL here. Some background info and turbo questions.

Hey guys,

I've posted before but I never officially de-noobed myself. My name's Lee and I'm totally enjoying my '90 Miata. This car is perfect for FL, especially the winter! I'm with the top down almost every day in the winter here in south FL. Let's me actually enjoy my work commute

My car is basically stock except for some headers and some Star Specs. I took it to an auto-x event a few months back and it was some of the most fun I've ever had! I'm totally looking forward to the next event.

I did dabble with a MSPNP a few months back. I got a MAP gauge and AEM WB to help with the tuning but I was never really satisfied with the drivability or fuel economy. Sure I felt the extra torque but I just couldn't get it to as smooth as the stock ECU. I'm sure I could have added a VTPS and kept on tuning but I lost interest in the MS, especially when I wanted to be in the STS class of my local auto-x. I ended up removing the MS (though my local auto-x wouldn't have cared either way) and selling it. Maybe I'm just too lazy to tune it properly, but I guess I just didn't want my car to be another computer that I needed to worry about (I get enough of computers at work).

So here I am now. I got a good deal on a used BEGI Churbo and I'm slowly trying to assemble a 5-6 psi non-intercooled kit to turbo the car but without a MS. I know... I know... I understand the limitations of a non-MS turbo build and all the extra fuel system parts (i.e. FMU, HP fuel Pump, O2 clamp, etc.) that I need to buy where I could have just bought a MS and 460cc injectors but I want to build a kit built around the stock ECU (crazy I know, but it's what I want).

So I have some questions for the community. When I initially bought the MSPNP, it was suggested in the community to take a systematic approach to upgrading the car in order to reduce the number of variables that needed to be tuned at a time. So I bought the MS, then installed the AEM WB. I was then going to install a VTPS and then some larger injectors. This would allow me to troubleshoot one thing at a time. Well, I want to do that for this turbo build.

I want to install 265cc 1.8l injectors, an FMU, a HP fuel pump, O2 clamp and a ignition device (their order doesn't really matter, I suppose) BEFORE I install the turbo. I want to drive around with that setup (obviously knowing that most additions won't do anything since there'll be no boost) and then when I have all the parts for the turbo kit, I can then install the turbo.

I think this is doable and the Miata should be just fine for the most part. However, the only concern I have is with the larger injectors. I know that going with the larger injectors and stock AFM settings will result in a richer mixture, BUT don't I want to run richer for when I'm turbocharged?? OR am I misunderstanding the concept of fuel mixture and I should adjust the AFM so that it works like "normal" with the larger injectors with or with turbo?

Regards,

Lee
gtlee77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2012, 09:40 AM   #2
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,910
Total Cats: 1,793
Default

Welcome, gtlee77!
Braineack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2012, 09:55 AM   #3
Murderator
iTrader: (76)
 
18psi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 36,207
Total Cats: 2,587
Default

Wow, so you are going BACKWARDS from a proper engine management to band aids? You are so full of fail, there really is no hope for you. Good luck. Enjoy the absolute horrid and inconsistent utter crap that is bandaids.

Really though, I have no words. Just shocked.
18psi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2012, 12:32 PM   #4
Junior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (4)
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Ft Lauderdale, FL
Posts: 76
Total Cats: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
Wow, so you are going BACKWARDS from a proper engine management to band aids? You are so full of fail, there really is no hope for you. Good luck. Enjoy the absolute horrid and inconsistent utter crap that is bandaids.

Really though, I have no words. Just shocked.
Geez... Looks to me like you had plenty of words...

I'm not looking for more than 6psi. What about turbo kits that came out before stand alone ECUs even existed? Are they all "full of fail"? That's just ignorant. I would argue that for people doing low boost turbo installs, the "bandaids" would be a better solution than an MS. And I'm not alone. Not every wants their car to be another computer. I design computer hardware for a living. I get my computer "fix" at work so I don't want to deal with computers in my car. Shocking, I know.
gtlee77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2012, 04:28 PM   #5
Elite Member
iTrader: (5)
 
pusha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Miami, FL
Posts: 7,363
Total Cats: -32
Default

ur gay
pusha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2012, 04:46 PM   #6
Junior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (4)
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Ft Lauderdale, FL
Posts: 76
Total Cats: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pusha View Post
ur gay
Wow... lol... is there anyone over the age of 13 on this site??

Oh, I see what's going on... you all worship the god of Megasquirt, this site is its temple, and there is a holy jihad against all unbelievers...

My apologies for offending your religion... geez...
gtlee77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2012, 04:47 PM   #7
Elite Member
iTrader: (5)
 
pusha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Miami, FL
Posts: 7,363
Total Cats: -32
Default

go away if you don't like us.
pusha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2012, 05:00 PM   #8
Elite Member
iTrader: (10)
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Seattle, Wa
Posts: 1,780
Total Cats: 30
Default

The simple fact of the matter is, you may not be alone in the thought that by putting crappy bandAIDS on your car will be somehow more cost effective and provide the same level of drivability and safety as a megasquirt, but each member of that same extremely small group are considered equally misguided.

YES, cars were turbocharged before the MS came to prevalence, and yes, they ran OK, but the simple fact of the matter is that bandaids are a hack. You are intentionally deceiving the ECU into doing something it isn't designed to do, and expecting results.

Back in the day, this may have been considered the 'correct' way to do things given the level of technology available and the cost of standalone systems, but it is simply unacceptable given the cost and performance of a megasquirt.

So, if you insist on using crapaids, be our guest. Your car probably* wont blow up, but its drivability will suffer and it won't ever reach it's full potential. Do what you want to, but don't expect any help from us (and in fact, you can probably expect to get flamed to hell, because you're incapable of heeding our extremely qualified advice).
Jeff_Ciesielski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2012, 05:00 PM   #9
Junior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (4)
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Ft Lauderdale, FL
Posts: 76
Total Cats: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pusha View Post
go away if you don't like us.
Huh!? I do like this site. There is so much great information and knowledge on this site for anyone wanting to turbo their car. But you're the ones attacking me!!

Can an admin please lock this thread? I'm getting tired of this noob bashing.
gtlee77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2012, 05:13 PM   #10
Moderator
iTrader: (11)
 
sixshooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 15,698
Total Cats: 1,563
Default

Hmm. I was afraid to put in my MS1 because of all of the questions and fail that kept coming up on the forums. Then I put it in. It was far more easy and intuitive than I had been led to believe. And after I tuned it to my satisfaction I just left it alone. There was nothing more to worry about with it than being worried about the complexity of inserting the key and turning. But then again, I started with Braineak's base tune and used TunerStudio's VE Analyze Live to autotune my fueling.

But we'll go on now to your current problems. If you use bandaids, you will be too rich or too lean most of the time, but it will run. It might not idle well at all, and it will likely stumble when entering boost. You will need to retard your base timing significantly from the 14 degrees you are currently running so you don't have too much at torque peak. And you will maybe get 40-50whp.

If you are cool with all of that, fine. Everybody has different standards.
My car made 5psi at the last track day with a blown up turbo and the wastegate wired open and it was so slow it made me sad.

Frankly, at those power levels it probably costs less and is easier to install and use nitrous oxide. But it is still pretty pointless. Don't roll up on any Camrys at the stoplight and expect to take them.
sixshooter is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2012, 05:15 PM   #11
Junior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (4)
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Ft Lauderdale, FL
Posts: 76
Total Cats: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff_Ciesielski View Post
The simple fact of the matter is, you may not be alone in the thought that by putting crappy bandAIDS on your car will be somehow more cost effective and provide the same level of drivability and safety as a megasquirt, but each member of that same extremely small group are considered equally misguided.

YES, cars were turbocharged before the MS came to prevalence, and yes, they ran OK, but the simple fact of the matter is that bandaids are a hack. You are intentionally deceiving the ECU into doing something it isn't designed to do, and expecting results.

Back in the day, this may have been considered the 'correct' way to do things given the level of technology available and the cost of standalone systems, but it is simply unacceptable given the cost and performance of a megasquirt.

So, if you insist on using crapaids, be our guest. Your car probably* wont blow up, but its drivability will suffer and it won't ever reach it's full potential. Do what you want to, but don't expect any help from us (and in fact, you can probably expect to get flamed to hell, because you're incapable of heeding our extremely qualified advice).
Finally, an adult answer. Thank you Jeff. You know what... I can respect that answer. I'm choosing bandaids but I shouldn't expect to get bandaid support here. I can accept that.
gtlee77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2012, 05:26 PM   #12
Elite Member
iTrader: (5)
 
pusha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Miami, FL
Posts: 7,363
Total Cats: -32
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gtlee77 View Post
Can an admin please lock this thread? I'm getting tired of this noob bashing.
you're going to throw money away on an inferior setup that's inevitably going to give you issues when you could just be responsible and make an educated decision? wtf?

as I said before, ur gay
pusha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2012, 05:27 PM   #13
Elite Member
iTrader: (5)
 
pusha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Miami, FL
Posts: 7,363
Total Cats: -32
Default

Attached Thumbnails
Hey guys. Noob from South FL here. Some background info and turbo questions.-1342637079421.jpg  
pusha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2012, 06:21 PM   #14
Murderator
iTrader: (76)
 
18psi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 36,207
Total Cats: 2,587
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gtlee77 View Post
Huh!? I do like this site. There is so much great information and knowledge on this site for anyone wanting to turbo their car. But you're the ones attacking me!!

Can an admin please lock this thread? I'm getting tired of this noob bashing.
So you acknowledge that the info is valid and good, then choosing to ignore it, then get butthurt when we tell you the truth?

You know what they say:
"IF YOU'RE GONNA BE DUMB, YOU BETTER BE TOUGH"

Might as well throw carburators and leaf springs on there too while you're at it.

Last edited by 18psi; 07-18-2012 at 08:54 PM.
18psi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2012, 07:09 PM   #15
Elite Member
iTrader: (9)
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Livonia, Michigan
Posts: 5,685
Total Cats: 10
Default

Devolution exhibit "A"

5-6 psi is ----, you'll waste money going backwards when you you could do things right and have a better set up.
buffon01 is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Looking for some EMS4 help E=MC^2 DIY Turbo Discussion 29 10-20-2015 01:03 AM
Left over turbo build parts gdoehl Miata parts for sale/trade 16 10-01-2015 10:42 AM
VE values too low? compuw22c MEGAsquirt 4 09-12-2015 08:42 PM
New here, saying hi, here's what I'm workin with. SuperSneakySecretSquirrel Meet and Greet 5 09-06-2015 09:30 PM
Help Rough Idle Backwoodsballer General Miata Chat 0 09-04-2015 07:39 AM


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:48 PM.