'03 COP Settings - DIYPNP - Car Is Barely Drivable - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 07-11-2014, 04:07 PM   #1
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Default '03 COP Settings - DIYPNP - Car Is Barely Drivable

My car runs like crap and I think it's ignition related. I have another similar thread with more detail, but it's not specific so it gets no love.

I recently swapped in a '03 motor after my '00 motor died. I transferred over the intake manifold/TB, cam angle sensor, along with the crank angle sensor and 4 tooth trigger wheel from the '00 motor.

Attached is a screenshot of my current Ignition Options, however after looking at Hustlers commuter MSQ for comparison, I noticed a few options that may explain my issues:

Spark mode (mine vs Hustlers)
4G63 vs Miata 99-00

Ignition Input Capture (mine - Hustlers)
Falling Edge vs Rising Edge

Normally, I'd just try them out but I don't want to FUBAR anything here by selecting the wrong settings when it comes to ignition.
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'03 COP Settings - DIYPNP - Car Is Barely Drivable-combined-ignition-options.png  
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Old 07-11-2014, 04:26 PM   #2
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The '99 and later ones need to use Miata '99-'00 spark mode.
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Old 07-11-2014, 05:19 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Cramer View Post
The '99 and later ones need to use Miata '99-'00 spark mode.
Thanks for the confirmation Matt! Figured out I should be using the falling edge setting based on my crank trigger wheel.

Unfortunately, the can does not start. Cranks well. Getting fuel pressure. I'll have to do some logging later to see what's up and confirm sync etc.

Last edited by Ian; 07-12-2014 at 03:24 PM.
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Old 07-14-2014, 07:39 PM   #4
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So the car does not start at all using the Miata 99-00 Spark Mode, but it does start very roughly when 4G63 is selected as Spark Mode.

WTF is going on with this POS?

Attached is my log of complete failure.
Attached Files
File Type: msl 2014-07-14_15.23.34.msl (114.8 KB, 27 views)
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Old 07-14-2014, 08:24 PM   #5
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Could you post a composite log?
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Old 07-14-2014, 09:17 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stefanst View Post
Could you post a composite log?
WTF, car started this time but it's very rough.

Attached composite log and normal log.
Attached Files
File Type: csv 2014-07-14_17.12.51.csv (57.3 KB, 35 views)
File Type: msl 2014-07-14_17.13.49.msl (269.7 KB, 30 views)
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Old 07-14-2014, 09:50 PM   #7
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The posted composite log is not a 99 trigger pattern. What settings did you use when you were recording it?
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Old 07-14-2014, 11:00 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stefanst View Post
The posted composite log is not a 99 trigger pattern. What settings did you use when you were recording it?
Not sure which settings you are referring to exactly but I assume it's Spark Mode? If so, it was set at Miata 99-00.

Attached are the associated settings.
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'03 COP Settings - DIYPNP - Car Is Barely Drivable-rsz_ignition-enginesequential.png  
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Old 07-14-2014, 11:30 PM   #9
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I have a '99 and some settings are different. Most importantly I have the input capture as *Rising Edge* you have Falling Edge.
Also my trigger angle offset is 6.0* and I'm using 4.5ms Dwell.

Since mine runs rather well, I'd wager that my settings are OK. Change to Rising Edge and see what happens.
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Old 07-15-2014, 12:21 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stefanst View Post
I have a '99 and some settings are different. Most importantly I have the input capture as *Rising Edge* you have Falling Edge.
Also my trigger angle offset is 6.0* and I'm using 4.5ms Dwell.

Since mine runs rather well, I'd wager that my settings are OK. Change to Rising Edge and see what happens.
Already did try, but I did again to be sure. Attached is composite log.

Now the car wont start at all with attached settings.
Attached Thumbnails
'03 COP Settings - DIYPNP - Car Is Barely Drivable-ignition.png  
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File Type: csv 2014-07-14_20.10.29.csv (20.6 KB, 26 views)
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Old 07-15-2014, 01:13 AM   #11
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Your ignition signal:

My Ignition Signal:


Looks like something's off with your hardware. Since I'm using the MS3X, I don't know the DIYPNP at all. But maybe you have to use pull-ups, or jumper something differently, change some pot settings....
Attached Thumbnails
'03 COP Settings - DIYPNP - Car Is Barely Drivable-ignition-bad.png   '03 COP Settings - DIYPNP - Car Is Barely Drivable-ignition-good.png  
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Old 07-15-2014, 09:13 AM   #12
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your cam signal doesn't look correct for a miata.

NBs are oddly spaced 4/1/2 wheels. yours looks like a straight up 4/2.
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Old 07-15-2014, 10:25 AM   #13
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Top composite log is a NA CAS
Bottom composite log is NB cam/crank

Quote:
Originally Posted by stefanst View Post
Your ignition signal:

My Ignition Signal:


Looks like something's off with your hardware. Since I'm using the MS3X, I don't know the DIYPNP at all. But maybe you have to use pull-ups, or jumper something differently, change some pot settings....
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Old 07-15-2014, 12:56 PM   #14
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Thank you for the replies gentlemen.

It looks like I'll have to track down the NB2 crank wheel, crank sensor, and cam angle sensor. I thought the '00 sensors were transferred over, but I was obviously wrong.

I appreciate the help. At least I'm on the right track now to getting this thing running well again. Thanks again everyone.
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Old 07-15-2014, 01:51 PM   #15
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I thought all 99+ were the same 4/2/1.

For everyone 4 teeth of the crank, there's a single tooth, then double tooth of the cam.

your pattern is 4/2, which looks very similar to a regular 90-97 signal; which probably explains why it ran in that mode on the MS.
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Old 07-15-2014, 03:33 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
I thought all 99+ were the same 4/2/1.

For everyone 4 teeth of the crank, there's a single tooth, then double tooth of the cam.

your pattern is 4/2, which looks very similar to a regular 90-97 signal; which probably explains why it ran in that mode on the MS.
Yeah, I realized that the CAS, crank sensor, and crank wheel must be from my original '96 motor.

Since the car runs like garbage with the same sensors/settings that worked well for the '00 motor, I will source the related '03 parts I am missing and wire according to Sav's VVT swap directions.

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Old 07-15-2014, 07:33 PM   #17
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You will need the NB triggers to get VVT working. However there is no reason that your engine shouldn't run well off the NA CAS. It will be down on midrange power, but it should still idle and drive well enough. I would work on getting the engine running correctly NOW and before making further changes. It's just going to make troubleshooting more complicated if other stuff goes wrong.
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Old 07-15-2014, 08:48 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben View Post
You will need the NB triggers to get VVT working. However there is no reason that your engine shouldn't run well off the NA CAS. It will be down on midrange power, but it should still idle and drive well enough. I would work on getting the engine running correctly NOW and before making further changes. It's just going to make troubleshooting more complicated if other stuff goes wrong.
I'm not sure what the problem is or where to look next. Any recommendations on where to diagnose further?

I'll have to refer to a 96 base map to get an idea of the setting differences. I've changed so many settings already trying to figure this out.
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Old 07-15-2014, 10:31 PM   #19
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Turn it back to the settings it ran with. Then figure out, why it's running shitty.
Are you running on all four cylinders?
If it's runniong crappy, my experience is that it's almost always spark related. Timing wrong, or no spark.
Tunerstudio has an option where you can turn off individual injectors, assuming you're running sequential fuel. This allows you to turn off cylinders.
Or you could go old school and just unplug spark plugs to see which cylinders are contributing.
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Old 07-16-2014, 01:11 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stefanst View Post
Turn it back to the settings it ran with. Then figure out, why it's running shitty.
Are you running on all four cylinders?
If it's runniong crappy, my experience is that it's almost always spark related. Timing wrong, or no spark.
Tunerstudio has an option where you can turn off individual injectors, assuming you're running sequential fuel. This allows you to turn off cylinders.
Or you could go old school and just unplug spark plugs to see which cylinders are contributing.
My main concern is that the car ran well on the OEM ECU, aside from high 13.x AFR's at WOT. I put in the MS and all goes to **** and the car barley starts with settings that worked well before. Could this be a firmware related issue?

It doesn't add up and that's why I'm so confused as to where to look next.
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