1999 Miata / new DIYPNP - runs as stock - pops but won't start with DIYPNP - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 02-24-2014, 02:45 PM   #1
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Default 1999 Miata / new DIYPNP - runs as stock - pops but won't start with DIYPNP

Hi - I am new to the MS2/Extra world.
I have a 1999 Miata with MAF delete / GM IAT - just built a DIYPNP.
I carefully followed the instructions...I think that I have all of the connections where they go, but I do not know how to prove it...

I just took the car out in stock format to get a 12-month leading emissions test, so it had run the same day before the computer transplant.

I loaded the 3.3.0 firmware, with the starter msq tune for the 99-00 miata.
I calibrated TPS, CLT, IAT, and AFR linear equation.
MAP shows something like the correct pressure.
CLT, IAT seem to read correctly sitting cold.

I can get some very occasional popping after a lot of cranking.

Per the MS2 / Extra tuning page, I started messing with the cranking pulse width and the afterstart ratios.
Never have gotten a really convincing set of firing, though.

I read some posts here with some interesting finds - could I have a bad connection [crank sensor? cam sensor?]

I noticed that the starter tune did not have an accurate fuel demand and did not have the engine size correct. There were also no values for injector size, so I fixed that. I will eventually drop in my larger injectors, AFTER I get the motor to run.

I am attaching three cranking logs and my latest modified starter tune [can it be called a tune if it does not run?].

I would GREATLY appreciate some assistance in getting through the frustration of trying to get the car to run.

Is there someone's NB msq that I can load [setup for stock condition] to rule out that it is a software issue?

Some questions since I am a newb here -
Why is the CLT temp spiking?
Am I somehow trying to start on the prime pulse?
How can I prove that I have power supplied during cranking? I think that the popping proves that I have fuel..

Big thanks in advance...your help is really appreciated!
Attached Files
File Type: msl 2014-02-23_16.04.41.msl (51.5 KB, 58 views)
File Type: msl 2014-02-23_16.05.46.msl (76.5 KB, 39 views)
File Type: msl 2014-02-23_16.06.44.msl (57.6 KB, 75 views)
File Type: msq 2014-02-24_13.36.29.msq (107.2 KB, 47 views)
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Old 02-25-2014, 05:13 AM   #2
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I was given these instructions from a Msq expert on here to do a Spark Test:

Remove all plug wires from the cylinders and put 4 plugs in them.
Make sure the plugs' hedx section touches the valve cover.
Go to Advanced -> Output test mode.
Enter 12345 in the first box and hit burn
Select Off for the fuel pump
& S elect "Coils" for the test mode.
Put "500" in output interval and "3" in Dwell".
Then select "CoilA" for "Coil output to test".
This should get cylinders 1 and 4 sparking.
Now select CoilB. 2 and 3 should be sparking.
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Old 02-25-2014, 10:07 AM   #3
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I am guessing that this process will get a forced spark out of the plugs during starting.

If I cannot get the spark to work here, then I guess I have a board problem in the spark area?

If the test is successful, will this change permanently enable the spark function?
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Old 02-25-2014, 04:37 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2cheap View Post
I am guessing that this process will get a forced spark out of the plugs during starting.

If I cannot get the spark to work here, then I guess I have a board problem in the spark area?

If the test is successful, will this change permanently enable the spark function?
This will tell you that there is a spark and check the firing sequence is correct to how you've set it up. Once youve done the test return all the details back to what they were.
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Old 03-03-2014, 10:42 AM   #5
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I'm pretty new to this as well, but I did get my 99 engine in my 93 running without too much fuss. In looking at the tune, I see your ignition trigger settings are at 4g63, where it should be 99-00 Miata. 4g63 is for NA style CAS. I also see you have no IAC selected. I'm not sure it would prevent the motor from firing, but you should have it set to pwm if you have the stock TB in place.
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Old 03-03-2014, 08:57 PM   #6
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you can still get the car to start with the iac off. you'll have to adjust the idle screw valve & finesse the throttle if it's cold. but yes, ideally you'll want to setup iac pwm.
https://www.miataturbo.net/megasquir...27/#post747718
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Old 03-05-2014, 10:30 PM   #7
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I changed the ignition trigger to Miata 99-00. I changed the IAC to PWN. Still no start. Next step will be to pull the plugs and do a spark test, as suggested earlier.
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Old 03-08-2014, 12:46 PM   #8
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I did the spark test...perfect spark from 1/4 on coil A and from 2/3 on coil B. I pulled the diypnp and double checked the pullup on vr2 - it is 463 oms. I took pictures of the board front and back.

Where to now?
I will post the remaining board photos in the 2nd post...

Keep in mind that I have my stock MAF unplugged. I can see the shunted IAT and coolant and MAP. I do know that without the MAF in stock configuration, the car is just this dead.
Attached Thumbnails
1999 Miata / new DIYPNP - runs as stock - pops but won't start with DIYPNP-img_20140308_104625.jpg   1999 Miata / new DIYPNP - runs as stock - pops but won't start with DIYPNP-img_20140308_104543.jpg   1999 Miata / new DIYPNP - runs as stock - pops but won't start with DIYPNP-img_20140308_104607.jpg   1999 Miata / new DIYPNP - runs as stock - pops but won't start with DIYPNP-img_20140308_104636.jpg   1999 Miata / new DIYPNP - runs as stock - pops but won't start with DIYPNP-img_20140308_104644.jpg  

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Old 03-08-2014, 12:50 PM   #9
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further pics of the diypnp board...

what else to look at since I have the unit disconnected?
Attached Thumbnails
1999 Miata / new DIYPNP - runs as stock - pops but won't start with DIYPNP-img_20140308_104734.jpg   1999 Miata / new DIYPNP - runs as stock - pops but won't start with DIYPNP-img_20140308_104741.jpg   1999 Miata / new DIYPNP - runs as stock - pops but won't start with DIYPNP-img_20140308_104712.jpg   1999 Miata / new DIYPNP - runs as stock - pops but won't start with DIYPNP-img_20140308_104724.jpg   1999 Miata / new DIYPNP - runs as stock - pops but won't start with DIYPNP-img_20140308_104753.jpg  

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Old 06-22-2014, 02:07 PM   #10
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All - thanks for the help. I resolved this - bad solder joints on the cam and crank wires. This was the only source of the issue that I could imagine...When I redid them, got it to crank. It idles at 2k, which I am working on, but now, a new issue, which I will post separately.
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