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Cool thread, I followed DNMakinsons guide and was able to get things dialed in relatively fast on at itb rotary engine. The challenge for me is my injectors are in the itb followed by 8-12 inches of intake manifold. Like you I thought I was making progress and ended up just starting over a few times.
For me disabling ego, setting clt and Rpm correction to 100 and only working with 1 table at a time got things dialed In very quickly. I drove an hour down the hwy and set adheres,
I have no lean spikes except with throttle stomps and those are to be expected with my setup.
In working in Sucked now, it seems great above 59kpa but I go rich on shifts and decel.
I target 13 and it dips into the 10's between 20 and 30kpa. I could probably cover the issue up by turning on fuel cut, but in my case Id like to keep some fuel for thermal Management.
It's probably not a big deal to hit 10 afr at that engine load, as was mentioned earlier the amount of fuel going in is tiny.
If anyone is interested in seeing what my settings look like and snippets from my logs I'd be happy to share, mostly I wanted to say thanks to you miata guys for tackling eae, reading about it here has been quite helpful.
Last edited by Mike Daoust; 08-19-2019 at 07:48 AM.
Cool thread, I followed DNMakinsons guide and was able to get things dialed in relatively fast on at itb rotary engine. The challenge for me is my injectors are in the itb followed by 8-12 inches of intake manifold. Like you I thought I was making progress and ended up just starting over a few times.
For me disabling ego, setting clt and Rpm correction to 100 and only working with 1 table at a time got things dialed In very quickly. I drove an hour down the hwy and set adheres,
I have no lean spikes except with throttle stomps and those are to be expected with my setup.
In working in Sucked now, it seems great above 59kpa but I go rich on shifts and decel.
I target 13 and it dips into the 10's between 20 and 30kpa. I could probably cover the issue up by turning on fuel cut, but in my case Id like to keep some fuel for thermal Management.
It's probably not a big deal to hit 10 afr at that engine load, as was mentioned earlier the amount of fuel going in is tiny.
If anyone is interested in seeing what my settings look like and snippets from my logs I'd be happy to share, mostly I wanted to say thanks to you miata guys for tacking eae, reading about it here has been quite helpful.
I'd like to see what your tables look like. I'd expect that nothing would be applicable because you have a rotary with itb's, but it's another data point.
PS - I'm just now getting back on this since the fire at AMP. Some wiring got fried and the end of the throttle cable melted. But, now that's all sorted out, I'm back in the saddle again. My main objective is to try to get rid of the lean spike in between shifts. Everything I do to address that either makes things worse - even to the point of the PW going to zero - or does nothing at all. I'm beginning to think that this will be something I just have to live with (even thought it's aesthetically awful).
SixShooter - I premix. 1oz per gallon.
Ted - Id pay to get the last bit of the way to EAE bliss if your serious about wanting to do remote tuning.
EAE seems to be a bit of a black art. Most tuners say they failed at it and just use the throttle pumps style AE. The ones who figured it out keep quiet.
Im hitting 0 PW as well. Still pig rich but thats to be expected I think, the fuel is already in the intake when you lift and you just cut off the air supply by lifting.
My Adhere is great, but I honestly dont know what to do with Sucked. Ive inverted the slope, Ive run a flat 2%, Ive run 25% correction at 20kpa and 7% at 100kpa and interpolated the in-between parts.
It behaves about the same no matter. Looking at the logs, its still pretty decent I guess.
My coolant and rpm correction maps are 100%. Im not sure I need either. The car generally only runs on the track and is always up to temp and above 4000 rpms.
For logs like this I puttered down the road, RPM correction would be useful for 3500rpms and below, the engine needs a little extra AE down low.
I asked about premix specifically because of the need for oil on overrun. As a former rotary guy I don't think you would want to turn on fuel cut on overrun if your oil is in the fuel.
I hope someone here can help with the rest of your search for knowledge.
No plans to use overrun fuel cut. I need the fuel for thermal Management and lube. Really I'm pretty happy with where the tune is at but always looking for improvement.
I was able to improve things today by lowering the 20-40kpa adhers and tweaked the sucked table slightly. turning ego off helped me dial things in much more easily. I'm pretty comfortable at this point in saying having ego on for any fine tuning sucks.
The afr still dives but it's a much shorter and shallower dip. The car feels good though so other than some mild tweaks I'm going to call this success.
That's good to hear Mike. I've decided to keep EGO on. Maybe it makes things worse, and maybe it doesn't, but I'm betting that it's better to have EGO "on" for steady-state conditions and use those settings to (try to) tune any impact on transients.
Here's my latest iteration from this morning. It's not perfect, but it's the best I've been able to achieve so far;
Through it all, the car feels great! Some settings have caused an idle droop, but I can drive around that until I've landed on "final" settings (is ANYTHING ever final?).
FWIW, I've been doing iterations practically every day. Tweaking a parameter here or there, trying to get to the mythical "ideal AFR response" across the entire spectrum of driving. No, I haven't reached Nirvana yet, but things are looking up. My latest thought-process had been to achieve a "flat" wall fuel reading. The thinking for that is; if WF is flat during all driving conditions then that means that the add and suck conditions are producing a constant "puddle" in the IM at all times - i.e. Nirvana.
I've been monitoring that based on using the scatter-plot in MLV, where I'm plotting (MAP * RPM) versus WF. Here is my baseline (right), versus today's run (left);
Plotted using the same scale, you can see that today's run (over the same "course") has a decidedly less positive slope than my baseline does. There is more scatter at low RPMs, and still a trend upwards at higher RPMs, but the curve is decidedly flatter.
The actual data traces are disappointingly similar, but I can see that the lean spike on tip in during upshifts is smaller - which is a plus because that has been my nemesis for the past few weeks.
With EAE, you are not creating the Wall Fuel, you are only trying to accurately account for it. Wall Fuel is a fact of thermodynamics.
Toyota has the patented math that is based on the experiments where they discovered and learned about the fuel puddling on the walls of the intake manifolds.
The math in the MS is almost exactly the same as Toyota's, save the Toyota has one more fine tuning layer.
At first people thought that it was a fuel injection phenomenon, but what was learned is that this also occurred in carbonated engines and was "fixed" with the accelerator pump, which was falsely thought to fix Venturi imperfections during transition, but was actually wall wetting.
With EAE, you are not creating the Wall Fuel, you are only trying to accurately account for it. Wall Fuel is a fact of thermodynamics.
Toyota has the patented math that is based on the experiments where they discovered and learned about the fuel puddling on the walls of the intake manifolds.
The math in the MS is almost exactly the same as Toyota's, save the Toyota has one more fine tuning layer.
At first people thought that it was a fuel injection phenomenon, but what was learned is that this also occurred in carbonated engines and was "fixed" with the accelerator pump, which was falsely thought to fix Venturi imperfections during transition, but was actually wall wetting.
DNM
Don't burst my bubble!! It's all I've got to go on.
This is a "Good News, Bad News" story. About a week ago I was doing my normal thing; make a run in the morning on the way into work, analyze the data, make changes and then datalog the turn trip home. On the way in, I logged this;
...and I was pleased with the progress! It looked like I was (finally) on a track that would yield a spectacular result and I was stoked. About halfway of the way home that evening, I noticed that I had lost boost. Low power was fine, but there was no longer any boost. In addition there was a small "chirp" that was coming from under the hood. The final depressing thing was that I was starting to see billows of smoke coming out of the exhaust. I knew precisely what was happening - my EBay turbo had bit the dust.
I was too depressed to do much of anything for a few days, but last weekend I decided to tear apart the turbo and see what happened. When I took off the air cleaner, the problem was immediately apparent, the nut on the compressor wheel had literally fallen off! Thankfully it went into the filter, and not into the wheel so the damage was relatively limited, but the damage had been done. There was excessive axial play on the shaft (most likely as a result of the compressor wheel being loose and allowing the shaft to move around) which is allowing oil into the impeller and causing the smoke.
So, where am I? I'm going to get another EBay turbo (I'm REALLY cash-limited, so I can't do what I want - which is to get an EFR...next year, perhaps), get back on the road and save up my pennies for "the real deal".
08-17-2019, 09:30 PM
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