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Old 10-07-2007, 10:47 PM   #1
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Default AE & DE settings

Here are my current settings



There are 2 things I'd like to improve on
  1. When on the highway in 4th or 5th and I accelerate slightly in gear, AE kicks in too easily. Same thing if there's a slight incline and I add a little throttle to keep speed constant. A/F will go to 12.5:1 even though I'm still at light load. So I need AE to kick in a little later. I don't know if I should increase the 'Map Dot Threshold' and/or if I have to rework the map base table.
  2. When cruising and I partially lift throttle, A/F will go very rich befoe stabilizing. So I need DE to kick in. Seems like adjusting the 'Decel Fuel Amount % will take care of this.
I'm going to try to play with this a little tomorrow, but if anyone has pointers (other than read the manual, cuz I just did that again), please share.
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Old 10-08-2007, 01:02 AM   #2
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I acutally was just paying with DIY's AE vs. what i have. I didnt like how easy it was for it to go rich with theirs and went back to my settings.
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Old 10-08-2007, 04:33 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben View Post
Here are my current settings



There are 2 things I'd like to improve on
  1. When on the highway in 4th or 5th and I accelerate slightly in gear, AE kicks in too easily. Same thing if there's a slight incline and I add a little throttle to keep speed constant. A/F will go to 12.5:1 even though I'm still at light load. So I need AE to kick in a little later. I don't know if I should increase the 'Map Dot Threshold' and/or if I have to rework the map base table.
  2. When cruising and I partially lift throttle, A/F will go very rich befoe stabilizing. So I need DE to kick in. Seems like adjusting the 'Decel Fuel Amount % will take care of this.
I'm going to try to play with this a little tomorrow, but if anyone has pointers (other than read the manual, cuz I just did that again), please share.
You're on the right track Ben-- for #1, try increasing your MapDot threshold a bit and/or the threshold on the lowest AE bin. For #2 try reducing DE to 90%, then 80%, the maybe 70%. When you get it too lean you'll notice bucking when you decel, particularly under partial throttle/cruise conditions when lightly accelerating and transitioning to a decel event. 100% is very friendly. On a manual tranny it's rare you get lower than 70% without bucking. On an a/t sometimes you can go lower.
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Old 10-08-2007, 10:18 PM   #4
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Thanks Jerry. That indeed is the path I am on. Just didn't get to it today. Spent too much time screwing with my BOV.
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Old 10-09-2007, 03:17 AM   #5
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Wow great timing, i was messing with this today too, because I had activated AE enrich for the first time since breaking my throttle shaft last week (hence no tps). I noticed surging at cruise and higher AF ratios, along with worsened gas mileage. After a couple trials, i found these very mild settings gave me the best drivability. Note that they are still in progress:

.5 @ 150kpa
.3 @ 100kpa
.1 @ 60kpa
.0 @ 40kpa
threshold is 60kpa
Accel time is .3

Below this threshold I found that sometimes the rapid fluctuation of the MAP signal 1-3kpa was enough to set it off since it was happening so quickly. 2kpa in a 20th of a second 60kpa/s. Maybe a code change to not allow enrichment to occur until X kpa change would solve this. I would think that under 15kpa overall change in a second, that theres no enrichment needed, but if I go from 40 to 50kpa, accel enrich kicks in because it changes so rapidly.
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Old 10-09-2007, 09:44 AM   #6
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Akaryre-- you should probably change your bottom bin to 70kpa, and then set your threshold to 60, maybe 70 kpa. You've basically got your bottom bin both skipped altogether (with the threshold set to 60) and also set to deliver no fuel anyways (with 0ms of fuel added). So it's disabled two ways right now.

In my experience on the Miatas I've tuned with MapDOT a threshold of about 70 is about right, maybe a hair higher. A inline vacuum restrictions/filter could help with the fluctuations and help this some possibly. I'd want to test response time after installation of this to make sure there was no negative result from that but I've not noticed one in the past...

Then on your bins there's no point in having any of them lower than your threshold. And scale them up from there.

Tune for feel, it should be nice and responsive, no stumble, no hesitation. WBo2 is a big help here, but it's not the whole story IMO. It's all about feel, if the car repsponds perfectly, but there's a minor very brief rich spike, who cares?

Newer AE like X-tau and EAE can get rid of any rich/lean spike during AE altogether, and it's pretty sweet, but IMO not really neccesary. Very cool it can be done, but it's really all about response-- if the car responds perfectly, crisply, instantly, every time.... and it's not introducing any dangerous condition to have that minor rich/lean spike for a instant, it doesn't matter IMO and in my experience... X-tau and EAE are cool though...
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Old 10-10-2007, 02:34 AM   #7
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thanks jerry, ill try that out. Honestly though, my car feels just fine without AE, but I dont stab the throttle much by habit and ease into things, so maybe thats preventing me from seeing issues. Ive got an LC1 and ill work on my settings over the next week or so.
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Old 10-10-2007, 05:00 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben View Post
Here are my current settings


Made some changes, and the car liked it A LOT.
Increased MAPdot threshold to 70, changed the 80 in the bottom bin to 85, and lowered decel fuel amount to 90%. Made excellent progress.
The throttle is *dramatically* crisper when I stab it from idle. I can still get AE to kick in in when I don't need it---but it's much harder to do so and happens less frequently. I'm going to back it down a little more, and bring the decel fuel amount down a touch more, and we'll call it done.

Between adding the igntion, the new rear (I don't have to ***** foot), fixing the BOV, and now the AE mod, my car is FAST. I took a friend for a ride, and I wasn't even trying, and every shift all I heard was "Holy ****!" or "Holy ****! Oh my God!"
Thanks Jerry
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Old 10-10-2007, 05:41 PM   #9
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Heheheheh
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Old 10-10-2007, 06:06 PM   #10
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last time i took a friend out, i heard:
"what's that rattle"
"clclcluccknclclknclcuclcankclcnclnlccnclacslk n"
"oh ****"


but i believe i too need to mess around with my AE.
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Old 10-25-2007, 01:12 PM   #11
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dude AE sucks. I can't get it to work for ****.

it's either on and it kills my cruise (full rich or full lean), no matter what the settings. or it's off and im happy (perfect 14.7 cruise) besides a tiny lean spike when going wot.
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Old 10-25-2007, 01:39 PM   #12
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Our AE works great, all all of our cars man... seriously.

Do you have normal AE enabled or RPM based AE? If the settings don't make any difference then you're changing the wrong settings, and it is a bit confusing, as the normal AE settings are still available (not greyed out) even when RPM Based AE is turned on, they just don't do anything, so you can change them all you want but it won't do anything. You have to disable RPM Based AE first.

Can you tell that 'got me' once before?
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Old 10-25-2007, 01:42 PM   #13
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I'll screenshot the A/E settings that are working for me sometime later today man.
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Old 10-25-2007, 01:43 PM   #14
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RPM based is set to normal (not rpm based on). so it's not overriding the AE wizard settings.

I've tried yours and Ben's AE settings and fiddled with my own, what happens is where i used to cruise and see perfect AFR, it will peg rich or peg lean and sputter on the same tune. turn the threshold to 255 and it's perfect again.

I guess i need to play with it more but, as is "off", it's fine for me.
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Old 10-25-2007, 01:51 PM   #15
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So you're getting unwanted AE under cruise?

You're running a 93, I'm guessing with the stock TPS, so you're using MapDOT AE. Your vacuum source will be part of the equation, a noisy MAP source will tend to be more likely to cause spikes and make it harder to prevent false triggering. Two ways to fix this--

A) if you're using the cruise port for the MAP source, try moving it to the port about mid-way back on the plenum, it's not as noisy. Less spikes.

B) grab a 'vacuum filter' from AutoZone's vacuum fittings section. It just looks like a little plastic tube coupler, but has a tiny orifice that will smooth out the vacuum readings.

Both of these together will help even more.


Next, You need to get your MapDot threshold right. 255 will disable it. 70 is often about right using the mid-plenum port without a filter. Raise/lower it in small increments. You don't want false triggering, but you don't want it any higher than needed either, leave a small buffer in there though. Then scale your AE bins based off of this, at least the bottom one. Make it just slightly higher than your threshold.
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Old 10-25-2007, 02:14 PM   #16
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will try. and yes i believe it's teed off the cruise port up front, will move to the back.
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Old 10-25-2007, 02:26 PM   #17
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I ended up moving mine to a T off the FPR. Found that to be the most reliable vac source on the intake mani. It also showed higher vac at idle when compared to the cruise port.

I also have a filter on the line.
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Old 10-26-2007, 03:29 AM   #18
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Old 10-26-2007, 08:28 AM   #19
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Anyone here running TPSdot or are we not supposed to when boosted? I think reverant was the one that said TPSdot wasn't to be used when turbo. I don't know why though.
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Old 10-26-2007, 08:36 AM   #20
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Don't use TPSdot in boosted regions, because small changes in TPS can cause massive changes in MAP, so you could get lean spikes if using TPSdot. TPSdot just doesn't capture fine resolution in the transitions for boosted cars like MAPdot does.
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