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Old 08-31-2009, 02:20 PM   #1
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Default Baseline MSQ for '99-00, including Abe's Board

In this thread, I'd like to list just what someone has to do to get the MS running with a sensible set of settings on the '99+

My own MSQ is hopelessly out of date, but at least this way we should have something sensible, and ideally, set up to deal with stock sensors, injectors, etc.

Last edited by AbeFM; 08-31-2009 at 02:34 PM.
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Old 08-31-2009, 07:49 PM   #2
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Basic Setup:
req fuel ~12
speed density
2
alt
4
4
port
4
even

More Constants
Disabled
Multiply
(Should be include, but requires a retune)
speed density
disabled

Injectors (THESE SETTINGS NEED WORK)
0.88
.2
100
26
66
off

Tach
Miata 99-00
4.00
off
3
Falling Edge
Going Low (I think? Get this wrong, cook coils. Check for hot coils on car)
Wasted Spark
D14

More ignition settings (NEEDS WORK)
Use Table
1st deriv
-----
6.5
10.0
standard
5.5
1
0.7
latency" 6
off
off

Noise Filtering: ALL OFF
Rotary Settings: OFF

General: (most of these you can tweak)
Single Table
Initial Map Reading
105
75
100.0 (lower if you are at altitude)
50
50
50
60
50
50
16x16

Rev Limiter:
Spark Retard or fuel cut if you have a Cat, Spark Retard/cut if you don't
Normal (unless they fixed the low temps)
10
7250
7500 (note this is reving the motor a bit more than stock, use lower numbers if you don't understand)
3
7

EGO:
Single Wide Band (if you have a wideband)
16
1
10
156 (higher if you have a 180* thermo)
1300
100 (you may want 60% here)
150 (you may want ~80 for NA and 120 for turbo here. Considerably lower than max boost.)
20
Simple (I've heard they've fixed the PID here. But I heard they fixed the idle, too)

Advanced. :-)

Startup Idle:
400
70 (at least)
every event

Priming: (these are for my 550s, so 2-3x these numbers)
10.3* 6.0 ms
linear to
174* 2.5 ms

Cranking pulse
10.3 326
174 107
exponential fall off. Just play with it.

ASE
kinda linear
10.3 52
to
174 21
steeper at end.

ASE taper:
10.3 350 to 174 100 linear

Idle Control (START WITH THESE!)
PWM Warmup

Cranking Duty
30f 70% to 175f 60%

PWM Idle
1
Normal
8

PWM Duty
-40f 61
155 32
This takes playing with. On my car, it idles high (~1100 rpm) but I have a huge stereo.

Warmup Enrichment:
-40 251
100 122
155 100

Accel Enrich (I think this is injector dependant)
800
7000
off

Code:
8.0  2000  1000 25.5
3.0   750    999  25.0
0.2    500   600  12.0
0.1    125   100  4.0

68%

600  150
.6   100
0.3   3.0
0.1    130
Output Port Settings:
off
off
off

PM5(warmup):
coolant > 190 5.0
no second condition
0
0

off

PT7 IAC2 (VICS, I believe)
rpm > 5250 500
no second
0
1

Off

Barometeric (default, which sucks, but there you go)

(skip to knock)
Knock Sensor:
Safe Mode
MS2 AD7/JS4
Low Input
Pull Up
2
300
700
7500
20
0.2
3.0
0.8
1.5
3.0

Overrun fuel cut
on
1500
40
2.5
90
1.5
0

Staged: off

Tacho:
on
JS11
Normal

Overboost: (very good feature for early testing. Set for 8 psi to start)
Fuel Cut
(your target max boost + a couple PSI. ~200)
15 (tweak this number to suit)

Advanced Idle (I've not tested, so leave off)

Tools:
Don't forget to set TPS - likely 98 to 741 but check this
Thermistor: (Note: These settings suck. They work well around 160F, so I use them. Be aware, at high temps, it maxes out and has a hard time being accurate at 200* if you try to correct the resistance for 99* instead of doing what I did. This needs work! Make sure fans work after setting this.)
2490
C
-40 100700
30 2238
82 177



THESE ARE ALL BASELINE! NO PROMISES THEY ARE RIGHT! CHECK THEM ALL< READ UP ON MS-II AND HOW IT WORKS. Bad settings here CAN AND WILL blow up your motor, over heat it, etc.

This thread is to work out good settings, but, everyone share their ideas but nothing here is to be considered a recommendation or an endorsement, including (and especially including) ME!. :-)

That said, this shouldn't be that bad. The only real way to get in trouble is to not understand what you are doing. Don't set these settings and try to run the Indy 500. Load them on and CAREFULLY check everything. Go for a drive and log what you saw, IF it starts.
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Old 08-31-2009, 10:38 PM   #3
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If you're using the old spark method, (i.e. DIY's old method), you can leave the spark at NOT INVERTED. If you use Joe's new spark inputs, set them at INVERTED.
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Old 09-01-2009, 12:17 AM   #4
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Here's one of my most recent .msq files if anyone wants to see it: http://snarc.net/diyautotune/evan_hr_58.msq ... '04 MSM (non-V.V.T.), MS 3.57 parallel, 460cc injectors. The car starts very strong even on cold winter days. Power deliver is smooth and strong.
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Old 09-01-2009, 02:43 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc D View Post
If you're using the old spark method, (i.e. DIY's old method), you can leave the spark at NOT INVERTED. If you use Joe's new spark inputs, set them at INVERTED.
Sounded right, but I was afraid to comment. :-)

I should post my MSQ, but it's dangerous to just use someone else's without checking every setting. :-) Glad to see it. Curious about your maps since I have your head. :-)
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Old 09-01-2009, 03:56 AM   #6
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I'm posting the MSQ I've been working on for the past few days. The table is set for those running only about 10-12 psi. You can correct it as you see fit for your application. Keep in mind, this MSQ is still UNTESTED, but it should give you a good base set up. The settings were set up to use Abe's MSII board, WITH Joe's Spark outputs.

To be safe, double check everything. Make sure you know what spark outputs you are using.

The spark map and fuel map are very conservative. I have not yet tested them, but they should be good to get your car up and running. The AFR table is still being worked on.

I'm not responsible if you blow your **** up with my settings.
Attached Files
File Type: msq MSIIE Miata99.msq (50.0 KB, 107 views)
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Old 09-01-2009, 03:59 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evank View Post
Here's one of my most recent .msq files if anyone wants to see it: http://snarc.net/diyautotune/evan_hr_58.msq ... '04 MSM (non-V.V.T.), MS 3.57 parallel, 460cc injectors. The car starts very strong even on cold winter days. Power deliver is smooth and strong.
Thanks for posting your MSQ evan. Just let people know yours is for MSI-Extra ^_^

I think abe was trying to make this specific for MSII-Extra setups, but it should help those who need MSI Settings.

Abe, is it safe to say you're missing a decimal point in several values for the accel enrichment wizard?

Last edited by Marc D; 09-01-2009 at 04:12 AM.
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Old 09-01-2009, 04:29 AM   #8
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It's interesting, a few revisions back, all the values jumped a factor of ~ten. I'm not sure, it seemed like 12. But I read about it, ignored it, and found the car wouldn't really run. So, I quickly put in new values, got what you see, and it worked. The issue is, there are caps on the values, so you can't put as big as you'd like.

The old set up would chirp the tires touching the gas, the new values, not somuch, but it runs ok. It's a baseline.
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Old 09-01-2009, 04:58 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AbeFM View Post
It's interesting, a few revisions back, all the values jumped a factor of ~ten. I'm not sure, it seemed like 12. But I read about it, ignored it, and found the car wouldn't really run. So, I quickly put in new values, got what you see, and it worked. The issue is, there are caps on the values, so you can't put as big as you'd like.

The old set up would chirp the tires touching the gas, the new values, not somuch, but it runs ok. It's a baseline.
What... really. Well, I'll try what I have now, but if it runs really shitty, I'll try what you have up. Maybe they changed in a new revision?

Oh! I forgot, I'm using the new MSII-E 2.1.1b firmware, it was released on 8/15/2009. It's available on the development section of the MSextra forums.
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Old 09-01-2009, 11:33 AM   #10
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I just dowloaded the Megasquirt Version 2.25 p3...
I want to plug this stuff in and hit the key, but I need a few things first.
1) I need an enclosure for my adapter board.
2) I need a dependable backup vehicle, as my truck is in the shop right now. My car is the only thing I can drive, and I can't afford to melt a coil or something cause then I'm screwed.
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Old 09-01-2009, 12:02 PM   #11
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Old 09-01-2009, 02:23 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc D View Post
If you're using the old spark method, (i.e. DIY's old method), you can leave the spark at NOT INVERTED. If you use Joe's new spark inputs, set them at INVERTED.
Of course, everyone is welcome to do what they would like.... But I wouldn't bother with the spark mod. It's more effort, more complication, more to go wrong, and I've never heard of an MS-II with this spark pop problem. Sure you could do it, but it'd be like running a CAS on an MS-II. You can, but you're giving up the advantages inherent in the MS-II.

If you find it's a problem, post it so people know, and then do the mod. :-) Or, just get COP, it works better anyway. :-)
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Old 09-01-2009, 02:27 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thirdgen View Post
I just dowloaded the Megasquirt Version 2.25 p3...
I want to plug this stuff in and hit the key, but I need a few things first.
1) I need an enclosure for my adapter board.
2) I need a dependable backup vehicle, as my truck is in the shop right now. My car is the only thing I can drive, and I can't afford to melt a coil or something cause then I'm screwed.
A backup vehicle is a GREAT idea ANY time you're going to mod anything. I have two backups. :-)

The enclosure can wait. Get it plugged in, tested. Figure out what's wrong, then find a case once it works. I tested Leo's board letting it hang from the cables in my footwell. I'd say get that out of the way ASAP.

The coils will either get hot the first minute they are powered, or not at all, so don't freak out. Plug it in, turn it on, jump out and check the coils (or have a friend). If they aren't hot, check again 45 seconds later and one last time 2 minutes later. If they are cool to the touch, nothing will go wrong ever*. :-)

The important thing is to find the issues early. Good luck!

*Keep an eye on them the first couple times you flash the firmware, or if you're worried, pull the jumpers on the adapterboard
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Old 09-01-2009, 03:58 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AbeFM View Post
Of course, everyone is welcome to do what they would like.... But I wouldn't bother with the spark mod. It's more effort, more complication, more to go wrong, and I've never heard of an MS-II with this spark pop problem. Sure you could do it, but it'd be like running a CAS on an MS-II. You can, but you're giving up the advantages inherent in the MS-II.

If you find it's a problem, post it so people know, and then do the mod. :-) Or, just get COP, it works better anyway. :-)

Ill go ahead and try out Joe's mods and ill let you know what happens.

But what do you mean about the advantages inherent in the MSII?
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Old 09-01-2009, 05:15 PM   #15
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your thermistor values are way off compared to what I measured when I deepfroze en boiled mine .
I'm using
-17.8 14660 (coldest I could get the sensor)
30 1700
96 215 (my fan switch-on point)
detailed results here
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Old 09-01-2009, 05:33 PM   #16
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wow, how did I miss that thread?

Thanks for the post, Frank.
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Old 09-01-2009, 05:57 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc D View Post
But what do you mean about the advantages inherent in the MSII?
Advantages like not needing to put in extra transistors. That's more noise in the system, more wasted power, more heat, longer latency, less accuracy.... The list of sacrifices (all minor to be sure) is quite long. And what do you GAIN? Nothing, except the slight chance of frying your coils when swapping MSQ's from someone.

That's like those people who put magnets on their fuel lines. You're doing work and spending money on something which was working fine in the first place. Again, do what you want, but tell me what it is you hope to gain with this mod? What is the reason for doing it? There are so many better places to put your time, again, in my opinion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc D View Post
Ill go ahead and try out Joe's mods and ill let you know what happens.
What will you let me know? That it doesn't pop on startup? That won't tell me anything, mine already doesn't. That's like telling me you're going to do a dance to make the sun come up tomorrow, and you'll get back to me if it works. Great.

No offense intended, it's just, why waste the time of a smart guy (yourself) when those efforts could be put into something more useful (figuring out the idle, seeing if the board works at all, perfecting the case, etc etc). :-)
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Old 09-01-2009, 06:03 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by f_devocht View Post
your thermistor values are way off compared to what I measured when I deepfroze en boiled mine .
I'm using
-17.8 14660 (coldest I could get the sensor)
30 1700
96 215 (my fan switch-on point)
detailed results here
for ref:
-40 100700
30 2238
82 177

Interesting! I never messed with the others, all I really cared was that my fans came on when they should, though I'll admit I'm sure most other stuff is off too. When I made direct measurements, I could NEVER get it to work. It didn't line up anywhere. Are you using the same value for the bias I am (2490)? Does it actually work (did you measure the temps independantly and verify)? That's the test everything failed - and since the MSQ doesn't record this info, I just do that one change to always make it work.

Those are very different values. Perhaps I'll try them and see what happens, my guess is they'll be way off - at 160* my values work, 82c is 180f... So how your point so much further works.... I imagine it's conceivable, since the 'slope' is more gentle. Will go read your thread.
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Old 09-01-2009, 06:11 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AbeFM View Post
Advantages like not needing to put in extra transistors. That's more noise in the system, more wasted power, more heat, longer latency, less accuracy.... The list of sacrifices (all minor to be sure) is quite long. And what do you GAIN? Nothing, except the slight chance of frying your coils when swapping MSQ's from someone.

That's like those people who put magnets on their fuel lines. You're doing work and spending money on something which was working fine in the first place. Again, do what you want, but tell me what it is you hope to gain with this mod? What is the reason for doing it? There are so many better places to put your time, again, in my opinion.


What will you let me know? That it doesn't pop on startup? That won't tell me anything, mine already doesn't. That's like telling me you're going to do a dance to make the sun come up tomorrow, and you'll get back to me if it works. Great.

No offense intended, it's just, why waste the time of a smart guy (yourself) when those efforts could be put into something more useful (figuring out the idle, seeing if the board works at all, perfecting the case, etc etc). :-)


Point taken. I suppose there won't be any real issue running either spark output. Since I've already done it, I'll leave it as be.

Anyway, I'm reading up on getting Boost control set up. I still have the old GM solenoid that I bought a few years ago, but never had the chance to really try it out.

If i get some settings that are working (im following a thread on MSextra), ill post them up here, hopefully you guys could fine tune it out.
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Old 09-01-2009, 06:18 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc D View Post


Point taken. I suppose there won't be any real issue running either spark output. Since I've already done it, I'll leave it as be.

Anyway, I'm reading up on getting Boost control set up. I still have the old GM solenoid that I bought a few years ago, but never had the chance to really try it out.

If i get some settings that are working (im following a thread on MSextra), ill post them up here, hopefully you guys could fine tune it out.
Agreed. Not worth putting in, not worth taking out. If you get a timing light, be sure to set the hardware latency - there should be a small delay from the extra transistor, but I'm sure it will be minimal. The value I've suggested is for toyota COP anyway, so expect a difference. You set this by looking for drift between just-high-enough RPM's to be stable and near-redline. That error is due to the fixed time it takes the system to react to the signal to fire, as it's independent of engine speed.
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