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Old 09-04-2009, 02:26 AM   #41
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Hi Marc,

I suppose you just flooded your engine with Franks msq - with your 440 cc injectors your Reqfuel will be something like 6 (?).

So if your flood clear is set to ~70% (as Abe suggested - just stomp your throttle fully and try to start for a while (until all the fuel is gone) - maybe you have to remove and dry your injectors (but first try the flood clear method)

Greets
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Old 09-04-2009, 02:29 AM   #42
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I set it for 12 for stock injectors. I run 550s.

That's a good thing to look at.

A couple easy things to check: Pull a plug wire, put a spark plug in it, make sure the outside is grounded - are you getting a spark? If you're seeing RPMs, probably yes, but it's worth checking. I'd check both outputs (i.e. cyl 1 and cyl 2) to be safe. A screwdriver will work as well

Getting all the starting settings just so is a pain, you'll probably have to mess with the idle valve (do you feel is vibrate/hear it when the ignition is on?), starting fuel and timing.

If you have a timing light, that's really the #1 thing to catch, and better to catch it before it can cause damage.

Seeing RPM's is really good, that means it's likely just a tune. Make sure TPS is calibrated (above 70% it won't fuel). Then, log-and-post your pulsewidths, we can check them to make sure they are sensible.

Don't worry, you can figure this out, just have to go after things one at a time. I know it's a pain to find a timing light in this day and age, but see if you can't borrow one. You shouldn't need to, but still, it's a great piece of info to have. Also, you could try my fuel map (after bumping req fuel to something appropriate. Shoudln't be the issue though.
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Old 09-04-2009, 02:43 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaphod View Post
Hi Marc,

I suppose you just flooded your engine with Franks msq - with your 440 cc injectors your Reqfuel will be something like 6 (?).

So if your flood clear is set to ~70% (as Abe suggested - just stomp your throttle fully and try to start for a while (until all the fuel is gone) - maybe you have to remove and dry your injectors (but first try the flood clear method)

Greets
Err, I didn't use frank's MSQ. I just used his Therm settings.

The car is like... "trying" to start. It tries to catch and it sounds like its doing it, but then it just wont continue to start up. My REQ fuel is at 7.00 The flood clear is at 70% also. I dont think its flooded, but ill try to flood clear and start again.

Abe, I own a timing light, so thats not a big issue.

But what do you mean "catch?" A timing problem? I cant really catch the timing if the car wont start. I did calibrate the TPS.

Give me a sec, im going to post my new MSQ. Let me know if you see anything out of the ordinary.

EDIT: Posted.
Attached Files
File Type: msq MSIIE Miata99.msq (50.3 KB, 66 views)
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Old 09-04-2009, 02:55 AM   #44
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laptop isn't here, can't check msq. But, even just cranking, you should see the timing at 10*, if you set it up right that's where it should be when cranking.

My guess is it's a fueling thing - my numbers are for 550's, you might need to bump them up a tad.

Where did you get your fuel map? That's the other thing to look at. I'm sure just knowing what the fuel is while cranking (pulse width * 440) should give us a rough idea where you are at. Are you playing with the pedal at all?

Trust me, it's just tuning. Check the timing for your own sanity, but it's likely tuning.
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Old 09-04-2009, 03:03 AM   #45
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550 injectors should give you a req fuel of 5.6

Since im using 440 Injectors, it gives me a req fuel of 7.0 I think thats about right, its the same settings I had on my MSI Set up. I really dont know whats going on, I will check spark though with the screwdriver method.

If anything, im going to try to get a video of me trying to start it, I might have to use my lame cellphone though.
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Old 09-04-2009, 03:06 AM   #46
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If you can point a timing light, it's worth it. It's not impossible to get cyl 1 and cyl 2 swapped - certainly possible I have it backwards, or that you do.

Probably a fuel thing, but a timing light will tell you that, so will swapping cables or OEM harness plugs. Or jumpers on the adapterboard.

Quote:
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550 injectors should give you a req fuel of 5.6

If anything, im going to try to get a video of me trying to start it, I might have to use my lame cellphone though.
Awesome. :-)
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Old 09-04-2009, 03:11 AM   #47
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Ill try to swap the coil wires and see if that cures it up. Ill get a video of it going soon.
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Old 09-04-2009, 03:21 AM   #48
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Had a look at your MSQ:

I just write what I think should be changed.

1. Your spark table only goes to 100 (kpa) - use a MSPNP spark map to start with.

2. My priming pulse is about half of what you have - maybe you should lower this by about 0.6.

3. Cranking pw is nearly identical.

4. Your AE settings for tpsdot are off by a factor of about 10 - something that has changed in the code lately. (nothing that should keep your from starting as your low threshold is set to 800rpm)

Thoughts:
Have you done Joe's mod to the ignition? If so - the settings should be different.

Are you running COPs or standard ignition system? Check the dwell times?

Good luck - hope you get it running soon.
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Old 09-04-2009, 03:31 AM   #49
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I think he's running COP. I forget the settings, I think it's like 2-3 ms and 5 cranking?

Pulsewidths are funny, they include opening time I think? Poorly written and should be in terms of fuel delivery (i.e. proportional to req fuel and incorperating injector settings but I don't think they do), anyway, it's a place to start.
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Old 09-04-2009, 03:34 AM   #50
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wtf??

I had a spark table that went all the way up to 213kpa. I know, because i edited it. And now i just checked and its only 100. WEIRD.

Anyway I tried again, this time swapped the coils.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSha_Qtj9fw

I pulled out Joe's mods, i could always try to put it back later if I wish to, but I dont see the need for it.

And.. guess ******* what. SUCCESS. It was the ******* coils swapped.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obFw3iZmOaQ

And fail. The videos wont load. So i just left them with links for you guys.

Last edited by Marc D; 09-04-2009 at 03:51 AM.
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Old 09-04-2009, 03:38 AM   #51
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Nice to hear. Congrats! BTW if you put in Joes mod again - you wilh have to change the ignition settings (I don't remember how exactly - have a look in the thread about Joes mod)

Now - go out driving and testing - we are waiting to hear your results...
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Old 09-04-2009, 03:41 AM   #52
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I posted what was needed to do for MSQ settings if using Joe's mods. Im sure it would have worked, but i wanted to narrow down the possibilty that a transistor might have taken a ****, so I just ran a pullup instead of Joes mods. I might put it back when I start modifying the communications area for bluetooth support.

But im just happy its all good and ready to roll.
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Old 09-04-2009, 03:45 AM   #53
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bluetooth?!

Anyway. Awesome awesome awesome!!!!! helllzzzzz yeah!

So, I'm not sober. Sue me. :-)

Anyway, great news. Still smart to check the timing, but I've found mazda's cars to be pretty much well built, wouldn't make sense to have slop in there.

Do you think your coils are backwards from stock? I should tell other people to switch them if that is it, or use jumpers on the jumper block that swap. Or change it in software, or move the wires inside the case (probably the best solution of all).


Very happy. Post videos when you figure it out (google lets you)
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Old 09-04-2009, 03:48 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc D View Post
I posted what was needed to do for MSQ settings if using Joe's mods. Im sure it would have worked, but i wanted to narrow down the possibilty that a transistor might have taken a ****, so I just ran a pullup instead of Joes mods. I might put it back when I start modifying the communications area for bluetooth support.

But im just happy its all good and ready to roll.
See if you get any issues. If not, leave off the spark mod, it's only a patch IF somethign misbehaves.

I just got my car back together tonight as well, so it's a good night for miatas everywhere.
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Old 09-04-2009, 03:50 AM   #55
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Not sure, but i remember one time while i was setting up for the MSI, that the coils were swapped and It wouldnt work. This was a LONG time ago, it had to do with the outs were wrong on DIY's website.

So Probably they were not swapped from factory, I possibly swapped it because that was the way it worked on MSI.

and yes.. BLUETOOTH!

https://www.miataturbo.net/forum/t37066/
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Old 09-04-2009, 03:57 AM   #56
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just don't go being faster than my car. Something won't feel right about that. :-)
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Old 09-04-2009, 04:18 AM   #57
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Don't worry. My power goals aren't very high at the moment

But, I do want to comment, that the car starts up fairly quick. After 1-2 revolutions it fires up. Tuning starts tomorrow, after i clean up the area under my dash

Thanks to abe, frank, and sven for the data and support while i got this going. Took only a day to get working. And im sure if my coils were done the right way, my car would have started on the first try!

So thats saying something about the boards. They are good to go!
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Old 09-04-2009, 04:31 AM   #58
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I'm as happy about it as you are! :-) Can't wait to see the video.

The 1-2 revolutions is something that should be taken care of in software, but it's how it is and you get used to it really quick.

What's funny, if there's fuel in the manifold, it'll catch, run for a cycle or so, then die till the MS "notices" it's running, then it'll run again. :-)
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Old 09-04-2009, 01:41 PM   #59
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ok, woke up today to see if I can finally get this car up and running...

And the alternator circuit appears not to be working. ****.

My battery sits at a low 11.10V when the engine is on, and when I rev it, it drops to 10.8. The idle is horrible too. Battery Light is on.
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Old 09-04-2009, 01:54 PM   #60
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Hmmm, alternator WILL make it do that. My guess would be it's on the wrong pin, since I tested the board on mine and it worked - but I ran a wire right to the alternator.

Questions:
1) You have the jumper on in the jumper block?
2) You did put the parts in funky that had to go in funky, per the instructions?

We'll start there. :-)
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