Baseline MSQ for '99-00, including Abe's Board
09-29-2009, 03:17 PM
#81
Ok, I can't post my datalog for whatever reason, .msl formats arent allowed. Ill email it to you if you like.
Picture of my datalog. The indicator is at the actual point the loss of sync occurs.
Might as well try to play with the Noise filtering settings to see if its software related or hardware related.
Picture of my datalog. The indicator is at the actual point the loss of sync occurs.
Might as well try to play with the Noise filtering settings to see if its software related or hardware related.
Reply
0
0
09-29-2009, 05:40 PM
#82
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 3,047
Total Cats: 12
What's the timing err% for the previous couple samples?
Anyway, it's pretty obvious something's up, you've got 20 lost syncs, I pretty much never get them. Let me know how the software goes, I'll put on my thinking cap in the mean time.
-Abe.
Anyway, it's pretty obvious something's up, you've got 20 lost syncs, I pretty much never get them. Let me know how the software goes, I'll put on my thinking cap in the mean time.
-Abe.
Reply
0
0
09-29-2009, 07:01 PM
#83
As for timing error, it ranges ±0.6. At the loss of sync event, the timing error jumps to +12.7. Really strange.
Reply
0
0
09-30-2009, 02:29 AM
#84
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 3,047
Total Cats: 12
Ok, well, the only data point I'm wondering about is the one RIGHT before the lost sync. The MS logs pretty slowly so there's likely nothing there.
As to why it happens so much, uhg. Dunno. There's a resistor you can bump to make it more forgiving. Pulling the caps should make it less likely to miss a fast tooth, but that doesn't seem like what's happening. I guess, look at a log, a long one, and look at all the various lost sync reasons. Are they always code 32?
As to why it happens so much, uhg. Dunno. There's a resistor you can bump to make it more forgiving. Pulling the caps should make it less likely to miss a fast tooth, but that doesn't seem like what's happening. I guess, look at a log, a long one, and look at all the various lost sync reasons. Are they always code 32?
Reply
0
0
09-30-2009, 02:59 PM
#85
Im going to do a datalog of a start up, the sync drops are obvious when the car is cold and first started.
I have a long datalog, but the one only has one loss sync event. I had to whip out my laptop after the first 20 happened. Ill get you more info on the others on my commute back to san jose from sac.
I have a long datalog, but the one only has one loss sync event. I had to whip out my laptop after the first 20 happened. Ill get you more info on the others on my commute back to san jose from sac.
Reply
0
0
09-30-2009, 07:10 PM
#86
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 3,047
Total Cats: 12
Ah! Hey, if you have the ability to predict when they will happen (cold starts) do a tooth log! You can only get a few seconds, but that sounds like it would work. It's some of the new features in the new tuning software, and exactly for this situation. It should let you know if you're seeing the teeth missing or extra or what.
Definitely figure that out and try it. And don't feel bad, I was helping a friend try to get his car running, after quite some time trying to get the timing we found his intake cam to be maybe 30* off. Heh.
Probably will be able to test his car soon, though, and see if this is an everyone-problem or a poor-marc problem.
-Abe.
Definitely figure that out and try it. And don't feel bad, I was helping a friend try to get his car running, after quite some time trying to get the timing we found his intake cam to be maybe 30* off. Heh.
Probably will be able to test his car soon, though, and see if this is an everyone-problem or a poor-marc problem.
-Abe.
Reply
0
0
09-30-2009, 07:48 PM
#87
Ah! Hey, if you have the ability to predict when they will happen (cold starts) do a tooth log! You can only get a few seconds, but that sounds like it would work. It's some of the new features in the new tuning software, and exactly for this situation. It should let you know if you're seeing the teeth missing or extra or what.
Definitely figure that out and try it. And don't feel bad, I was helping a friend try to get his car running, after quite some time trying to get the timing we found his intake cam to be maybe 30* off. Heh.
Probably will be able to test his car soon, though, and see if this is an everyone-problem or a poor-marc problem.
-Abe.
Definitely figure that out and try it. And don't feel bad, I was helping a friend try to get his car running, after quite some time trying to get the timing we found his intake cam to be maybe 30* off. Heh.
Probably will be able to test his car soon, though, and see if this is an everyone-problem or a poor-marc problem.
-Abe.
More than so, there is actually a "sync error" logger. It will give me the trigger signals before and after the actual loss of sync event. Ill get that to you right away on a cold start. I tried logging it while It was warm, but no loss of sync problems. Its more prominent on long drives too, but I just made a short trip and didnt have any sync problems.
Reply
0
0
09-30-2009, 07:55 PM
#88
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 3,047
Total Cats: 12
I might have to try this tuner studio. I did once, didn't like the gauges, found it hard to set up MS and never did again. It's certainly getting to be that time as support for MT dwindles.
Very interested to see this logging, that's just what we need.
Very interested to see this logging, that's just what we need.
Reply
0
0
10-01-2009, 11:37 AM
#89
YOu know, the funniest thing is when you want and expect it to happen it doesnt.
Today was the case. In the morning, not one sync loss with my laptop all hooked up ready to datalog. Very strange, to say the least. Although, I still did have that occasional hickup during the drive and I did get the datalog of those.
During the datalog, i also set the sync loss trigger to catch what was going on during the sync losses, and it appears that the crank trigger was dropping out. The cam with its |____||____ ... special cam sensor was there, but the crank trigger dropped out entirely for about 1200ms. While this is only one event, I gotta make sure this is a true lost of sync event with teh same circumstances. Ill datalog some more when I get the chance, and hopefully the next cold start will start showing the sync drops.
i just checked the .csv file from the sync loss log, and the two instances that I did have a sync loss, they were both due to a crank trigger drop out. If you need to see the file, I can send it to you abe
Today was the case. In the morning, not one sync loss with my laptop all hooked up ready to datalog. Very strange, to say the least. Although, I still did have that occasional hickup during the drive and I did get the datalog of those.
During the datalog, i also set the sync loss trigger to catch what was going on during the sync losses, and it appears that the crank trigger was dropping out. The cam with its |____||____ ... special cam sensor was there, but the crank trigger dropped out entirely for about 1200ms. While this is only one event, I gotta make sure this is a true lost of sync event with teh same circumstances. Ill datalog some more when I get the chance, and hopefully the next cold start will start showing the sync drops.
i just checked the .csv file from the sync loss log, and the two instances that I did have a sync loss, they were both due to a crank trigger drop out. If you need to see the file, I can send it to you abe
Reply
0
0
10-01-2009, 02:52 PM
#90
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 3,047
Total Cats: 12
1200ms?? us, maybe? 1200 ms is 1.2 seconds, you would think the engine would stall! Maybe not, though.
It wouldn't hurt to check/set the gap on the crank sensor, just loose the bolt that's in there, tip it in with a 0.020" feeler gauge in there against a tooth, and tighten it back up. It's unlikely to be wrong but warrants testing.
It wouldn't hurt to check/set the gap on the crank sensor, just loose the bolt that's in there, tip it in with a 0.020" feeler gauge in there against a tooth, and tighten it back up. It's unlikely to be wrong but warrants testing.
Reply
0
0
10-02-2009, 09:23 PM
#91
havent gotten around to dealing with the trigger drop out problem. I had my BOV leaking REALL bad, so I just replaced it with an ebay SSQV and it works really well.
But some news about closed loop idle.
I spent some time looking at the discussion over at msextra (their forums crashed though recently), and I saved their docs about the closed loop idle.
I followed along and made sure the settings were good and well.
**** doesn't work. Doesn't move. Nada.
Played around with some more settings.
Nope. The DC remains non moving at 28.9. Apparently, 29% DC on NB IAC valves = valve closed FYI.
I guess closed loop idle is crap, its not worth trying to make worth on NBs. PWM warm up seems to be the only setting that has an effect on the NB's IAC valve.
I don't think anyone here has been able to get the settings to work right, but if you have had some luck, someone speak up about it.
Makes me kinda skeptical about CLBoost. But who knows, maybe idle is crap but BC works?
BTW abe, do I still need the required diode that goes across the BC valve?
But some news about closed loop idle.
I spent some time looking at the discussion over at msextra (their forums crashed though recently), and I saved their docs about the closed loop idle.
I followed along and made sure the settings were good and well.
**** doesn't work. Doesn't move. Nada.
Played around with some more settings.
Nope. The DC remains non moving at 28.9. Apparently, 29% DC on NB IAC valves = valve closed FYI.
I guess closed loop idle is crap, its not worth trying to make worth on NBs. PWM warm up seems to be the only setting that has an effect on the NB's IAC valve.
I don't think anyone here has been able to get the settings to work right, but if you have had some luck, someone speak up about it.
Makes me kinda skeptical about CLBoost. But who knows, maybe idle is crap but BC works?
BTW abe, do I still need the required diode that goes across the BC valve?
Reply
0
0
10-03-2009, 01:43 AM
#92
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 3,047
Total Cats: 12
Quick answers:
Really? My old BOV gave me problems, I would oil it all the time, it kinda helped. The newer FM one... oh, wait, no, it's the old one. I changed the orientation it's mounted in and it's been fine, for like a year or two. Stopped thinking about it. Go figure.
There IS a "idle closed" setting. There's basically two of them, in different menus on the idle settings. If it won't go below 29% (or any other number save 0) that's almost certainly your issue.
Then again, a friend of mine keeps getting 625% in his MSQ. :-P Still, I'm pretty sure that's your problem. let me know if you checked that. Their idle code really DOES suck, there's lots of ways to get it to not work, but I can't say this enough: PWM Warmup works, practically, really really well. :-)
No, all the diodes you need are on the board. Actually, isn't the idle run from the MS ECU directly anyway? Well, whatever, the adapterboard provides everything you should need there.
P.S. I'm not sure if the parts went out tue, wed, or thursday, but I they were gone this morning. Should show up either today, monday, etc. Something soon.
Really? My old BOV gave me problems, I would oil it all the time, it kinda helped. The newer FM one... oh, wait, no, it's the old one. I changed the orientation it's mounted in and it's been fine, for like a year or two. Stopped thinking about it. Go figure.
There IS a "idle closed" setting. There's basically two of them, in different menus on the idle settings. If it won't go below 29% (or any other number save 0) that's almost certainly your issue.
Then again, a friend of mine keeps getting 625% in his MSQ. :-P Still, I'm pretty sure that's your problem. let me know if you checked that. Their idle code really DOES suck, there's lots of ways to get it to not work, but I can't say this enough: PWM Warmup works, practically, really really well. :-)
No, all the diodes you need are on the board. Actually, isn't the idle run from the MS ECU directly anyway? Well, whatever, the adapterboard provides everything you should need there.
P.S. I'm not sure if the parts went out tue, wed, or thursday, but I they were gone this morning. Should show up either today, monday, etc. Something soon.
Reply
0
0
10-04-2009, 01:03 PM
#93
Bleh. Posted it in the BS forums. Your **** didnt go through abe.
https://www.miataturbo.net/forum/t39838/
https://www.miataturbo.net/forum/t39838/
Reply
0
0
10-04-2009, 02:22 PM
#94
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 3,047
Total Cats: 12
Man, not hitting good odds here. Leo got an empty envelope. I figured I'd messed up and put 2 sets in someone else's package. Well, I'll do it again and put them in something more sensible this time. I did think that would work pretty well - certainly I don't see how the tape came off! Wait, the tape was ON? There's no way those could slip out.
Reply
0
0
10-04-2009, 11:09 PM
#95
Man, not hitting good odds here. Leo got an empty envelope. I figured I'd messed up and put 2 sets in someone else's package. Well, I'll do it again and put them in something more sensible this time. I did think that would work pretty well - certainly I don't see how the tape came off! Wait, the tape was ON? There's no way those could slip out.
I was not able to mess with my MS install today. Hopefully sometime this week, I'll try again and post my results. I am pretty sure its me not your PNP board.
Reply
0
0
10-05-2009, 02:36 AM
#96
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 3,047
Total Cats: 12
Here's what's odd. I set up a friend's car today, and it would not run. I loaded Marc's settings, and it was purring like a kitten.
Well, ok, it needed some work, but really, it started right up. I have yet to find what the difference is, but mostly it seems to stem from MSQ and INI issues. I'd love to have a matched set - i.e. default MSQ, INI, and S19 (firmware).... Still, no luck yet, least of all any idea why the car won't start on what I did by hand but did on Marc's.
Till I figure it out, Marc's might be the way to go. Oddly, putting his MSQ on a fresh install while tuner studio was running literally killed the serial port, but a reflash and re-upload (plus switching ignition output polarity) had it working. Don't know why but I won't argue with what works. :-)
P.S. Definately no holes in your envelope, etc? I guess I'll wait and see if anyone got any, or any extras, then figure it out. But, the updated transistors worked fine in my friend's car.
Well, ok, it needed some work, but really, it started right up. I have yet to find what the difference is, but mostly it seems to stem from MSQ and INI issues. I'd love to have a matched set - i.e. default MSQ, INI, and S19 (firmware).... Still, no luck yet, least of all any idea why the car won't start on what I did by hand but did on Marc's.
Till I figure it out, Marc's might be the way to go. Oddly, putting his MSQ on a fresh install while tuner studio was running literally killed the serial port, but a reflash and re-upload (plus switching ignition output polarity) had it working. Don't know why but I won't argue with what works. :-)
P.S. Definately no holes in your envelope, etc? I guess I'll wait and see if anyone got any, or any extras, then figure it out. But, the updated transistors worked fine in my friend's car.
Reply
0
0
10-05-2009, 12:41 PM
#98
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 3,047
Total Cats: 12
wELL, UNLESS...(unless I turn off caps lock)....
Unless Raj got lucky, NONE of them made it through. And to think I spent all that time making those little holders. :-) Ok, I'll send another batch out today, tomorrow if I can find them, the purchasing ladies have their day off on monday.
Unless Raj got lucky, NONE of them made it through. And to think I spent all that time making those little holders. :-) Ok, I'll send another batch out today, tomorrow if I can find them, the purchasing ladies have their day off on monday.
Reply
0
0
10-05-2009, 03:16 PM
#99
Ok here we go.
Im posting my most recent MSQ for alpha code 3.0.3 here, and 2.1.0p stable release, although I do recommend using 2.1.1b beta code or the new alpha code.
Boost control is on, EGO is turn off in my settings. Idle has PWM warmup settings as well as closed loop settings, although they aren't working currently.
Abe, for your idle control, when you set your PWM lower than 28.9/29, does it seem to affect your idle?
My car, for some reason, doesnt react to any changes in the values lower than 29, as if 28.9 is set as "Valve closed"
Im posting my most recent MSQ for alpha code 3.0.3 here, and 2.1.0p stable release, although I do recommend using 2.1.1b beta code or the new alpha code.
Boost control is on, EGO is turn off in my settings. Idle has PWM warmup settings as well as closed loop settings, although they aren't working currently.
Abe, for your idle control, when you set your PWM lower than 28.9/29, does it seem to affect your idle?
My car, for some reason, doesnt react to any changes in the values lower than 29, as if 28.9 is set as "Valve closed"
Reply
0
0
10-05-2009, 03:30 PM
#100
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 3,047
Total Cats: 12
There;s two places to set min opening for the idle valve, let me see if I can find them...
WHEN you're in CL...
Closed Loop Idle Valve Settings has a "Idle Valve Closed Duty" which I bet you have set to 28 or whatever it is. Also, in PID settings, there's a "Min Duty for PID", whichever of these is the highest is what you're computer will refuse to drop below.
WHEN you're in CL...
Closed Loop Idle Valve Settings has a "Idle Valve Closed Duty" which I bet you have set to 28 or whatever it is. Also, in PID settings, there's a "Min Duty for PID", whichever of these is the highest is what you're computer will refuse to drop below.
Reply
0
0
