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Basemap Compare_SparkTables

 
Old 02-13-2019, 06:39 PM
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Default Basemap Compare_SparkTables

First off: Running MS2PNP, 1999 Miata, NB2 injectors, California 91 Fuel

I was looking over various basemaps (currently running the MS2PNP spark basemap) - primarily the spark tables since fueling will be on me. I arbitrarily chose 3 different locations on the rev/map table across the three different base maps.

At ~4000rpm and WOT, TK's is running 30 degrees, MS3PNP is running 20, and MS2PNP is 27.
At ~7000rpm and WOT, TK's is running 36 degrees, MS3PNP is running 22, and MS2PNP is 28.
At ~4300rpm and 75kPa, TK's is running 36 degrees, MS3PNP is running 28, and MS2PNP is 30.



Full disclosure, I do know that the best way to tune spark is via dyno - hell, tuning everything - as it can be quite challenging to hear knock or ping. I'm familiar with wonderful sounds of ping on a hot day and a hot gas tank. Need to put a heat shield on my midpipe to protect my gas tank on said hot days.

Since I'm running an MS2PNP, is there anything stopping me from borrowing/using braineack's spark table as my own (obviously correcting the axis values, etc.)? Or is there something specific to brain's builds that make it different than what DIY has? And why was there such a change between MS2 and MS3. I was going to look at the MS3Pro's map for insight before I saw how drastically it's retarded in comparison to MS2PNP's let alone brain's map. Thoughts?
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Old 02-14-2019, 03:35 AM
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You can interpolate the timing table and put it into the Ms2. There is no difference that could not be accounted for. Just make sure you keep the general shape of the timing map when in 3D.

You should however use a detcan to listen for detonation. I am running RON95 octane ****, which is the same as AKI 90-91 and had a lot of knock with the Trubokitty basemap, even in the cruize map. I had to remove a few degrees over the entire map.
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Old 02-14-2019, 03:58 AM
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MBT naturally aspirated is around 32 degrees.
Use ms3pro pnp map, add 5 degrees from 75 kpa up, have 90-100 interpolating from 28 to 32 at redline and you should be good to go, just check for knock as suggested.
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Old 02-14-2019, 01:09 PM
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Thanks caterpillar. Makes sense. It's been cooler weather so far
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Old 02-14-2019, 01:22 PM
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I don't know what's happening but it's not updating the edit I'm trying to do on that post. So here's another attempt.

Thanks Cat - yeah, I'll probably do something akin to retarding the timing based on MAT since I'm currently tuning at colder than usual ambient temperatures ~15C. I wish I had another sensor that simply retarded timing overall, based on ambient temperatures before working through the MAT.

Yossi - thank you for that. I wanted to double check I read what you wrote correctly... I've pasted the stock MS3 map followed by the modified one below. I added 5 degrees at 75kPa and above. I smoothed out 60-75kPa since there was effectively a timing dip. I then set 5400+ RPM at 100kPa as 28 degrees, and at 80kPa 32 degrees, and interpolated in between. I then smoothed out 3700-5400RPM in those regions.



Is this what you were getting at?

Edit9000: it's also nice to see that the idle region has that high of timing. I thought my 18 degrees was "at the edge." I think I'm going to start with this map shrunk down to MS2 table size.
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Old 02-14-2019, 01:41 PM
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Copy the 80 kpa row over to the higher VE.
Set 2000 rpm at 28 degrees and 7200 at 32 deg. Now interpolate. This should approximately get you MBT, but this is assuming you don't have knock.
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Old 02-14-2019, 01:57 PM
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Like so? Copied 80kPa to 90kPa row. Interpolated 75kPa-90kPa to get the new 80kPa values. At 100kPa, set 2000rpm to 28, and 7200 to 32. Interpolated 90kPa - 100kPa to get the 95kPa values. That's quite the bump up at 2000rpm and 100kPa.

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Old 02-14-2019, 04:27 PM
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Also, anyone know the reason why brain has that retard bubble at 24-35kPa and 4800+ rpm?
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Old 02-15-2019, 10:32 AM
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"Retard bubble" is my new phrase of the day
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Old 02-15-2019, 06:17 PM
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Guess this is where I've ended up. Stock MS2 map on the bottom (except in the idle and crank path zone), incest combo of MS2 and MS3 map up top. I opted of not getting close to MBT numbers from above until I actually get on a dyno. Too chicken for now.


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