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Old 04-20-2017, 09:54 PM   #1
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Default CLI, is it necessary?

Hello all! Today was much more successful in getting settings dialed in on the MSPNP2 for my 95 Miata than yesterday. For now, I am using Open Loop Idle. The base map came like this but it was idling pretty low and was struggling to stay running, so I moved the PWM idle warmup duty cycle up until it was idling right about 1100ish, AFR's sit right at about 14. The reason I set the idle high is so that when I turn on my headlights, it will prevent it from dropping below the usual idle of 800ish. So now onto my question. I know that closed loop is good for compensating for sudden loads like A/C or headlights being switch on, but what other benefits can I get out of CLI that open loop can't do? Am I ok keeping the car in open loop for now? Thanks for any help!
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Old 04-20-2017, 10:03 PM   #2
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CLI also adjusts for other changes: dead time variations, IAT (MAT), other electrical loads that may not be sudden, but are there nonetheless, and can add up. Fuel differences that affect AFR, but idle valve can compensate for (though so could EGO). And idle fuel economy because you are now idling at 1100 RPM.
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Old 04-20-2017, 10:07 PM   #3
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Cli is better. That's why people use it. Your having the above issues because you need to spend time with your car and tune it better.

Otherwise your just settling for issues you don't need.
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Old 04-20-2017, 10:09 PM   #4
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CLI also adjusts for other changes: dead time variations, IAT (MAT), other electrical loads that may not be sudden, but are there nonetheless, and can add up. Fuel differences that affect AFR, but idle valve can compensate for (though so could EGO). And idle fuel economy because you are now idling at 1100 RPM.
Thanks! That helps. When closed loop is activated, will it ever use the settings from open loop? I read that closed loop can make adjustments to open loop settings but does not completely override them, sort of how EGO can make changes but only by a certain amount. Is this correct? Or does closed loop not use open loop settings at all? My last question for now is, if I changed over to closed loop, would there ever be any conditions that it would use open loop? Thanks
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Old 04-20-2017, 10:10 PM   #5
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Cli is better. That's why people use it. Your having the above issues because you need to spend time with your car and tune it better.

Otherwise your just settling for issues you don't need.
I understand. It's just that I've been still researching how to tune for closed loop and don't want to mess with something I don't know how to use yet. It seems like there is alot of info to take in for idle settings. Is it easier than it sounds?
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Old 04-21-2017, 12:03 AM   #6
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A lot of this thread is me being a bumbling noob, but this might help if you can sift through the ongoing conversation. It's been helpful to me so maybe the info in there will help you out : https://www.miataturbo.net/megasquir...dles-3k-92783/
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Old 04-21-2017, 12:19 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by ridethecliche View Post
A lot of this thread is me being a bumbling noob, but this might help if you can sift through the ongoing conversation. It's been helpful to me so maybe the info in there will help you out : https://www.miataturbo.net/megasquir...dles-3k-92783/
Thank you for the link. My have you got some bad luck haha! A good read so far nonetheless, I'm about half way through. It's nice to see I'm not the only one struggling with things at times. This link I also found very helpful for myself. You might check it out. Again I'm only halfway through your thread so you may have been introduced to this info already https://roadsterzoku.wordpress.com/2016/03/08/megasquirt-ecu-part-3-idle-control/
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Old 04-21-2017, 03:09 AM   #8
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Cool find. I'll definitely give that a read as well. 'Mr. Slow' on mx5nutz has a few good posts on the topic as well.

Tuning Idle With Ms3 (And Ms2 Mostly) - Forced Induction & N/A Power Mods - MX5Nutz Forum

As far my bad luck... it's more like noob luck. My build thread has a ton of documentation of my boneheadedness. I'm new to this. **** happens!
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Old 04-21-2017, 08:06 AM   #9
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Cool find. I'll definitely give that a read as well. 'Mr. Slow' on mx5nutz has a few good posts on the topic as well.

Tuning Idle With Ms3 (And Ms2 Mostly) - Forced Induction & N/A Power Mods - MX5Nutz Forum

As far my bad luck... it's more like noob luck. My build thread has a ton of documentation of my boneheadedness. I'm new to this. **** happens!
Everyone starts as a noob am I right? I've kind of screwed myself over because I have to slap my turbo on starting tomorrow and I haven't done my megasquirt research until just recently :/ idiot move
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Old 04-21-2017, 02:20 PM   #10
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******* 2017 and we are still talking about using warmup only mode. i should ban you, then drive to your house and take your MS2 and install a MS1.
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Old 04-21-2017, 02:22 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by dawson128 View Post
Thanks! That helps. When closed loop is activated, will it ever use the settings from open loop? I read that closed loop can make adjustments to open loop settings but does not completely override them, sort of how EGO can make changes but only by a certain amount. Is this correct? Or does closed loop not use open loop settings at all? My last question for now is, if I changed over to closed loop, would there ever be any conditions that it would use open loop? Thanks
yes.

yes.

no.

when you want **** idle.
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Old 04-21-2017, 02:41 PM   #12
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******* 2017 and we are still talking about using warmup only mode. i should ban you, then drive to your house and take your MS2 and install a MS1.
Hi brain I was waiting for my first encounter with you being an obvious newb to the forum. Pls don't take my MS as it cost me lots of money and 2 is better than 1. The only reason I am still using open loop is because I get very nervous making changes to settings that I don't know everything I can know about. I guess I just started this thread to get some extra info before I try tuning in closed loop. Not meaning to upset anyone using Open Loop, just readying myself for switching to closed loop and trying to have some questions answered.

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Old 04-21-2017, 02:48 PM   #13
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morning laughs achieved
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Old 04-21-2017, 02:53 PM   #14
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here's why you want CLI:

today everything is good. tomorrow when the temp swings 10, it wont be.
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Old 04-21-2017, 02:54 PM   #15
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morning laughs achieved
Afternoon tears for me
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Old 04-21-2017, 02:55 PM   #16
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here's why you want CLI:

today everything is good. tomorrow when the temp swings 10, it wont be.
I understand. I'll get working on it ASAP
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Old 04-21-2017, 07:48 PM   #17
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I would highly recommend not installing the turbo till you have a basic handle on this stuff. It considerably ups the ante in terms of **** ups.
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Old 04-21-2017, 08:30 PM   #18
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I would highly recommend not installing the turbo till you have a basic handle on this stuff. It considerably ups the ante in terms of **** ups.
I understand. I think I'm gonna postpone the actual hardware install to Sunday instead of tomorrow. Ive got lot of information down in the past two days. The only thing I need to really research still is injector deadtime for when my 700cc DW go in. Tomorrow will be closed loop idle adjustment, extra VE table tuning, and injector install.
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Old 04-21-2017, 08:37 PM   #19
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Believe me I would love to take more time to tune it but with high school and work I don't really have that option at the moment
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Old 04-22-2017, 04:44 PM   #20
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Dude, your car runs right now. Why are you in a rush to blow it up? My turbo install was supposed to have been done in March. It's the end of April and I'm just getting off the ground with megasquirt.

I'm in med school so I know a thing or two about being busy. I can tell you though that blowing an engine will be a lot more of a headache than having a naturally aspirated car for a few more weeks or months. Learn this ****. It'll pay dividends when you're trying to tune with boost. I'm going to guess that you're not going to pay a tuner 500+ bucks to give your car a tune that may or may not work well, right?
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