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Old 07-19-2015, 01:09 PM   #21
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Yes, it is. You guys have no idea how bad the gas is. Luckily we have e85 here.

OP is in Texas though, so I really don't think he will have the same problem.
but he will, imo, be at the limit of the rods. remember the msm is 9.5:1
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Old 07-19-2015, 01:15 PM   #22
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We are all at the limits of the rods, that's not nessecarily a spark concern. Yes, knock is bad, but so is too much torque/pressure.

That map is retarded throughout; don't focus on just the peak numbers, that's all my point was.
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Old 07-19-2015, 01:18 PM   #23
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yep the rest of it is retarded
the bottom row could be 40*
the 100kpa row could be 27*
everything in between could be in the upper to mid 30's
the 1900rpm-2700rpm columns could easily see like 5* more
that's just for starters
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Old 07-19-2015, 02:29 PM   #24
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Thanks guys for helping me clear that up. I've been looking at others spark map and I thought that it would be decent.

Last edited by ihiryu; 07-19-2015 at 02:46 PM.
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Old 07-19-2015, 02:47 PM   #25
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Less fail?




Edit:

Looking at this, it seems like I could really run more timing in the midrange. So as 18PSI said, 100 KPA row should be closer to 25 in the midrange and slowly taper off. I'm just really worried about doing timing, since I know if you're not careful, it'll pop. Which is why I'm glad everyone posted to let me know what they normally see with other miatas. I really apprecite it.

The lower end, though (non boost area), can I just look at my engine load, and shoot for whatever timing gives me the most vacuum, of course this is only while cruising.
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Old 07-19-2015, 03:49 PM   #26
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Look how much you retard between 80 and 100kpa, you're not even in boost yet.

1 degree per psi is still relatively conservative. I think you're killing mid-range with that map. I didn't really start retarding until I was in boost, you're map still doesn't look quite to what the oem would at 3k at 100kpa.

I'd probably reascale your map to make the 5200rpm column 3k. That's how retarded I think the map is.

I don't want you to blow motor, I want you to blow your mind with fun.
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Old 07-19-2015, 07:08 PM   #27
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I really appreciate it. Tuning is vastly new to me. I know I went backwards (as most people say go MS, and tune it before you go boosted to get the hang of it). I'm just really worried and don't want to blow my car up.

So here's my question, what makes a good spark map? I know that both you and 18PSI both have tuned many a miata, is this just from tuning the same engine over and over that you guys are able to just get a good grasp at it?

I know the ideal way is to do it on a dyno, and if not with det cans, but it is very difficult (for my skill level anyways) to drive with detcans on (especially when I'm worried they aren't accurate) and tune all at the same time.

I am currently saving up to rent a load bearing dyno for a day, but the dyno's in my area are not load bearing.

Thanks a lot for all the help, I really appreciate it. What I ended up doing was scraping my entire map and going back to the one that Rev built, then taking what areas I had advanced and swapped it over. So hopefully this one will be much better.


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Old 07-19-2015, 07:17 PM   #28
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ill upload the spark maps i use in a bit. that will give you a good idea of what to try with your own car.
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Old 07-19-2015, 07:28 PM   #29
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Old 07-19-2015, 09:25 PM   #30
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This is pretty much what I load in most units I build:

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...1&d=1437351164

notice how I don't start to retard very much as you build boost. The value at 2700RPM is the same all the way up to about 5psi. It's cause of the way you build boost and travel through the map. That should give you more grunt. I'd tested mass retard in that area, and it showed up negatively on dyno maps.

You can see I'm at about the same value at 215kPa as your map, but at peak torque (typically 3500-4500RPM) I have it most retarded and start adding in a little bit at redline.

This map isnt necessarily conservative, but it's been pretty safe so far, I've been using a map similar to this since like 2007, and no one I've built anything for has ever complained about knock to me, and I've tested this map on various setups on the dyno with det cans and I havent heard knock.

My NB2 map is pretty much stolen from Hydra as FM did a lot of testing of it and I haven't had much hands on with any. Same idea though, not a lot of retard as the turbo spools, then builds spark back up after peak torque. This map in boost is a bit more conservative in the mid range due to the extra CR. It's a bit more advanced in cruise, probably helps MPGs a bit.


https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...1&d=1437351802

This at least gives you and idea of what others are running. They are other theories of tuning spark out there. but most maps I see all end up looking like the above here. DIY/Hydra/AEM basemaps are always a good start, then doing your own testing to see what works best for you.


here's a random log from someone doing a pull to show how this turbo goes through the map:

Attached Thumbnails
Critique my Spark Advance Map-80-spark_map_38735c76eb38b46c74a718176b651cec19712eae.png   Critique my Spark Advance Map-80-spark_map_b2_e3d0af27074ce846dfbc4bb16d6de24171c153b8.png  
Attached Files
File Type: table ignitionTbl1_2015-07-19_20.12.28.table (3.5 KB, 213 views)
File Type: table ignitionTbl1_2015-07-19_20.23.04.table (3.1 KB, 134 views)

Last edited by Braineack; 07-19-2015 at 09:41 PM.
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Old 07-20-2015, 01:16 AM   #31
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Brain,

Thanks so much! Looking at the two timing maps I can see I'm almost ten degrees too retarded in the mid range, and a little low as boost is coming on. I pulled a little timing on the top, and added a bunch more to the midrange. How does this look? It's starting to all make sense though. My biggest fear was running too much timing, and come to find out I'm running too little.
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Old 01-15-2016, 02:19 PM   #32
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Hey all. It's been a long while since I updated this thread. This is the ignition table I have been using. I noticed that I run a bit more timing than everyone else, but everything seems to be good, and I haven't gotten any knock. Car feels okay, just not as fast as I would like, but I think that's attributed to the stock MSM turbo.

Currently I am running 12 psi through the MSM turbo, with an AFR of 12 in wot (13's in about 1-2 psi, and slowly tapers to 12). I cruise at about 15.2 in the lower RPM's, and about 16's at 3-4K. Unfortunately, I don't have a way of checking my EGT's, but my wife drives the miata much more than I do now, in her 6 mile commute.

What do you guys think? I've added a lot of timing from before, and it feels much better at the top now, but still a bit weak. I also noticed I'm running a bit more timing than everyone else, but the car seems to really, really love it, but this is as far as I think I'll take it.


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