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Old 11-27-2013, 02:20 AM   #1
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Default DIYPNP A/C R14

The I/O circuit of the 96' 1.8 input / output for the A/C relay and fan is very confusing to me... http://www.diyautotune.com/diypnp/ap...7-18bp-mt.html

It says:

"Input 1
Input From: 1K (remove R14)
Output to: 1B, 1G
Purpose: A/C Relay & Fan"


Where is the 1K they speak of?

In Brain's Miata Forumz, he has a wholly different approach to the A/C:


it's really not hard. Say you have a '91.

Instead of wiring 1Q (the a/c switch) to Input 1 IN then back OUT to 1J, simply completeing a circuit.

You'd wiring 1Q to Input 1 IN, The input 1 OUT to PE1.
Then from PAO to 1J.

Now, when the A/C switch is grounded, the MS knows, it can bump up the idle, then ground the output to 1J.


What are the advantages of Brian's approach over the DIYPNP approach?
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Old 11-27-2013, 03:14 AM   #2
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This is how I am interpreting their instructions:

Connector Board 1K to Input 1(In)
Input 1(Out) to Connector Board 1B to 1G
Remove R14

Is this correct?
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Old 11-27-2013, 08:13 AM   #3
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I use the glsender code so the MS controls the a/c.

so I'd wire it like this:

1K to Input 1 IN
Input 1 OUT to PE1
PA0 to 1b,1G

If you do as posted in #2, the m/s will never know you flipped on the a/c, then you'll post here later about how your idle sucks and you don't know how to tune until you eventually convert to gslender firmware, rewire the input so the m/s controls the a/c compressor and then you actually are able to tune your idle well.
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Old 11-27-2013, 11:25 AM   #4
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Thanks Brain, I was unaware that the GSLender mod was associated with a full firmware update. I will need to look here more:

http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewto...p?f=91&t=43793

For PA0, DIYPNP has this set of instructions for controlling the radiator. What is PA0(How does A/C and Radiator both come out of PA0?), and should I retain these connections after doing as you suggest above?

Relay 1
Input:Mainboard PA0
Output:ConnectorBoard 1A
Purpose:Radiator Fan
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Old 11-27-2013, 11:29 AM   #5
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you can use any other spare output then.

I typically put the rad fan on wled.
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Old 11-27-2013, 11:47 AM   #6
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Sorry, I don't get it. Can you elaborate a bit more?

I tried reading into your note and all these flew through my mind:

- what does WLED stand for (and how does it relate to the rad)
- what is considered an output
- isnt the nippon denso hard wired to specific inputs and outputs in the car so if I change an output would the signal reach the rad?
- I have no idea what PA0 stands for
- Does DIYPNP have a more thorough explanation of all the input / outputs are so I don't have to be clueless?
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Old 11-27-2013, 11:53 AM   #7
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Old 11-27-2013, 11:56 AM   #8
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Thanks, there it is.
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Old 11-27-2013, 01:30 PM   #9
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Out of curiosity, how does MSPNP deal with the A/C and idle issues? I am imagining that the MSPNP will have a similar circuitry as what DIYPNP instructions call for.
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Old 11-27-2013, 02:28 PM   #10
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The MSPNP1 reacts to the a/c, so it's never seamless. All the MS will know is that the idle speed dropped and it needs to compensate.

The MSPNP2 has a circuit built, external to the MS, that bumps the idle speed up before the compressor engages--no software in play.

The DIYPNP on glsender code, wired properly, controls the a/c through the software itself. You set up parameters like the delay time before switching the compressor on, how much you want to bump the idle, the new target rpm, etc. The glsender code is great, it's similar to what the ms3 firmware is like with tons of other idle improvements added.
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Old 11-28-2013, 02:23 AM   #11
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Brain, can you tell me whether or not you remove R14 in this case?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
I use the glsender code so the MS controls the a/c.

so I'd wire it like this:

1K to Input 1 IN
Input 1 OUT to PE1
PA0 to 1b,1G

If you do as posted in #2, the m/s will never know you flipped on the a/c, then you'll post here later about how your idle sucks and you don't know how to tune until you eventually convert to gslender firmware, rewire the input so the m/s controls the a/c compressor and then you actually are able to tune your idle well.
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Old 11-28-2013, 02:24 AM   #12
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Thanks for the explanation. Concise and thorough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
The MSPNP1 reacts to the a/c, so it's never seamless. All the MS will know is that the idle speed dropped and it needs to compensate.

The MSPNP2 has a circuit built, external to the MS, that bumps the idle speed up before the compressor engages--no software in play.

The DIYPNP on glsender code, wired properly, controls the a/c through the software itself. You set up parameters like the delay time before switching the compressor on, how much you want to bump the idle, the new target rpm, etc. The glsender code is great, it's similar to what the ms3 firmware is like with tons of other idle improvements added.
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Old 11-28-2013, 04:08 AM   #13
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Ok, I've looked at this for quite a bit, first reading about the "programmable on-off outputs" over in the inputs and outputs link and now have a grasp of the role glsender's firmware plays in managing A/C speed with regard to idle tuning.

regurgitation for confirmation:

as WD/WLED is also a programmable on-off output, then it can be used to drive the (5v?) signal which triggers the fan control relay, controlled by the "Fan Control" settings in TS based on input coolant temps.

is above accurate?

If so, my question is how do I set the output for the rad fan to WLD/WLED? In my TS settings, I cannot find these outputs... (Nor can I find PA0 for AC)

The "output pins" in TS under Basic/Load Settings>Fan Control I see are: IAC IAC1 FIDLE D15 Nitrous1,2 Tacho etc... none which mirror the ones on the MS (MAP, AD1, AD2, FLX, PE1, Pa0, CAN H,L, WLD, etc.

Am I correct to assume that setting signal output is done in software/ in the TS? How can I set the correct OUT pins?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
you can use any other spare output then.

I typically put the rad fan on wled.
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Old 11-28-2013, 11:25 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
The MSPNP2 has a circuit built, external to the MS, that bumps the idle speed up before the compressor engages--no software in play.
MSPNP V1.3 (which is what is shipping now) has been revised to include a software based idle-up for A/C. This change was made due to customer demand. The previous version did use a hardware based idle-up. We originally used the hardware based method for a few reasons. One being to reserve the analog input for other uses as the end users saw fit, but it seems people preferred to do it in software. So we made the change.

MSPNP Gen2 V1.3 Added Features
  • Software AC Idle-up Control (Requires firmware version 3.3.0 or newer)
  • Increased Ignition Output Current Capacity
  • Improved PCB Configuration Jumper Markings
  • Increased I/O Capacity on Rear Option Connector
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Old 11-28-2013, 11:38 AM   #15
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Thanks Ben, what about the current DIYPNP, does firmware 3.3 or newer handle the same?

Kindly,
Ccbb
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Old 11-28-2013, 02:00 PM   #16
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Is this right for GSlender?

AC
1K to Input 1 IN
Input 1 OUT to PE1
PA0 to 1B
1B to 1G

Rad
WLD to Relay 1 IN
Relay 1 OUT to 1A
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Old 11-28-2013, 02:07 PM   #17
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Attached Thumbnails
DIYPNP A/C R14-1c239.jpg   DIYPNP A/C R14-2h5siv8.jpg  
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Old 11-29-2013, 01:31 AM   #18
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To continue this one-man post (Happy Thanksgiving), I've flashed the new 3.3 firmware instead of GSlender and will give the guys at DIYPNP a call tomorrow. I do not see "output settings" so I'll ask about how to wire to control AC idle enhancement.

Still not sure about R14.

The reason I used 3.3 is because I figure it may be easier to give the guys at DIYPNP a call rather than GSLender (what with the time difference and all) and GSLender suggests using 3.3 (last post): Megasquirt MSEXTRA / MS3EFI • [FW MOD] ms2extra pre3.3alpha5 gslender v2.8 (View topic)


I am trying to find a good MSQ to work off of for 3.3 - I used the MSQ off of the DIYPNP website which is based off a much older 2.2.1B tune file signature. There were a buttload of errors:

Is there a better MSQ to use for 3.3?

31 Warnings:
Warning: Value in .msq '"Advanced"' for parameter: userlevelbits is of a type that is not compatible with the current firmware.This will be ignored, please correct manually.
Warning: Value in .msq '"1"' for parameter: can_poll_id is of a type that is not compatible with the current firmware.This will be ignored, please correct manually.
Warning: Parameter in .msq, but not valid for current firmware: No options found for Bit EcuParameter:can_poll equal to the proposed "Disabled"
Warning: Value in .msq '"Off"' for parameter: feature4_0vanos is of a type that is not compatible with the current firmware.This will be ignored, please correct manually.
Warning: Parameter in .msq, but not valid for current firmware: No options found for Bit EcuParameter:spk_config_spka equal to the proposed "D14"
Warning: Value in .msq '"Disabled"' for parameter: AMCOption is of a type that is not compatible with the current firmware.This will be ignored, please correct manually.
Warning: Value in .msq '"Off"' for parameter: feature4_0mindwl is of a type that is not compatible with the current firmware.This will be ignored, please correct manually.
Warning: Value in .msq '"Spk retard, fuel cut"' for parameter: RevLimOption is of a type that is not compatible with the current firmware.This will be ignored, please correct manually.
Warning: Parameter in .msq, but not valid for current firmware: No options found for Bit EcuParameter:EAEOption equal to the proposed "ON"
Warning: Value in .msq '"Port Injection"' for parameter: injType is of a type that is not compatible with the current firmware.This will be ignored, please correct manually.
Warning: Parameter in .msq, but not valid for current firmware: No options found for Bit EcuParameter:IdleCtl equal to the proposed "PWM Warmup"
Warning: Value in .msq '"Off"' for parameter: feature4_0maxdwl is of a type that is not compatible with the current firmware.This will be ignored, please correct manually.
Warning: Value in .msq '"UNUSED"' for parameter: mafOption is of a type that is not compatible with the current firmware.This will be ignored, please correct manually.
Warning: Failed to set value for pwmidle_freq .msq value is not valid for current configuration: No options found for Bit EcuParameterwmidle_freq equal to the proposed 13
Warning: Value in .msq '"Normal"' for parameter: boost_ctl_settings_invert is of a type that is not compatible with the current firmware.This will be ignored, please correct manually.
Warning: MSQ Units Mismatch for EAElagRPMmax! rpm found in current configuration, rpms found in MSQ, values were not converted to new units.
Warning: baroCorrVals array size does not match the currently loaded configuration,
rescaled .msq values to match configuration.
Warning: baroCorrDelta array size does not match the currently loaded configuration,
rescaled .msq values to match configuration.
Warning: Value in .msq '"78Hz"' for parameter: pwmidleset_hz is of a type that is not compatible with the current firmware.This will be ignored, please correct manually.
Warning: Value in .msq '"Rotary off"' for parameter: RotarySplitModeOn is of a type that is not compatible with the current firmware.This will be ignored, please correct manually.
Warning: Value in .msq '"Disabled"' for parameter: RotarySplitModeRX8 is of a type that is not compatible with the current firmware.This will be ignored, please correct manually.
Warning: Parameter in .msq, but not valid for current firmware: No options found for Bit EcuParameter:N2Oopt_pins equal to the proposed "Flex"
Warning: Value in .msq '"Off"' for parameter: feature413_dbg is of a type that is not compatible with the current firmware.This will be ignored, please correct manually.
Warning: idleadvance_loads array size does not match the currently loaded configuration,
rescaled .msq values to match configuration.
Warning: Parameter in .msq, but not valid for current firmware: No options found for Bit EcuParameter:testop_coil equal to the proposed "CoilA"
Warning: Value in .msq '"Off"' for parameter: testmode is of a type that is not compatible with the current firmware.This will be ignored, please correct manually.
Warning: idleadvance_curve array size does not match the currently loaded configuration,
rescaled .msq values to match configuration.
Warning: Parameter in .msq, but not valid for current firmware: No options found for Bit EcuParameter:testop_inj equal to the proposed "Neither"
Warning: Value in .msq '"Off"' for parameter: iactestlock is of a type that is not compatible with the current firmware.This will be ignored, please correct manually.
Warning: Value in .msq '"run"' for parameter: iactest is of a type that is not compatible with the current firmware.This will be ignored, please correct manually.
Warning: Value in .msq '"Off"' for parameter: feature413_missdbg is of a type that is not compatible with the current firmware.This will be ignored, please correct manually.
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Old 11-29-2013, 08:23 AM   #19
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wiring looks correct.

keep r14 in place.

ignore errors.

I've never used 3.3.0 so I can't tell you where to look for the a/c stuff, but I'd assume it would be in the startup/idle drop down.
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Old 11-29-2013, 03:06 PM   #20
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Thanks Brain,

I will head out to get a timing light for base-timing and some vaccum-line and a barb for MAP.

I noticed two things while plugged into TS, are these normal:

- The throttle position increments upward and goes to 116% and stops there.
- The coolant temp defaults at 180 and drops to 120 for a split second every 10-15 seconds or so

I can't seem to find a shop to weld in an aluminum bung today and may pick up an arc welder to do so tomorrow. In the mean-time, what settings do you typically use to run off the MAF?

Kindly,
ccbb
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