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Old 04-09-2012, 12:07 AM   #1
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Default DIYPNP - Starts but can't idle 93 Miata

I recently put together a diypnp for my 93 miata. Everything is stock however I did the wells tps mod to properly calibrate it.

So I am able to get it started using the basemap on the diyautotune website however it will not idle. It jumps around for a bit [maybe 5 seconds], if I give it gas there is a delay in response, rpms will jump, but again will die within 5-10 seconds.

I have attached the msq file and a jpeg of the log.

Also, it smells like fuel after the car starts. What am I doing wrong here? Thanks so much!
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File Type: msq april08.msq (79.1 KB, 80 views)
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Old 04-09-2012, 12:09 AM   #2
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I think this is the proper graph
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Old 04-09-2012, 06:20 AM   #3
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Whats your AFR like when it starts? Do you have a wideband connected? If your VE table values are off it will run rich or lean in 5-10 sec then stall. Put up a log of the AFR's
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Old 04-09-2012, 09:38 AM   #4
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how is it grounded?
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Old 04-09-2012, 11:46 AM   #5
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Neither of your datalog screen caps show valid RPM signal. No RPM signal will prevent the car from running. I would double and triple check for wiring errors at the OPTO and VR2 jumpers. Also make sure that you have installed pullups at both the OPTO and VR2 positions on the mainboard.

You can also use test mode to make sure that the MegaSquirt can properly control your injectors, coils, idle valve, and fuel pump. If it can control all of those items, and if you get a valid RPM signal when cranking, then the motor should start and run.
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Old 04-09-2012, 04:40 PM   #6
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The car has the stock narrowband still in it. Would I be better off putting in the lc-1?

Weird about the tach signal not showing up in the logs, because the tuner studio gauges show the correct rpm signal in real time.

I'll have a look at the wiring and double check the jumpers.

Braineack, as for how it's grounded, what do you mean? I just followed the wiring guide on the diyautotune site, so that's what I did. Should there be a separate grounding source?

Would it be helpful if I took a video of what the car is doing?
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Old 04-10-2012, 07:59 PM   #7
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So i got the car to idle, im assuming based on the settings its super rich now, anyways in order to get a good idle i had to:

up the warm-up enrichment settings by 40
up required fuel from 11.2 to 14 (in the settings for that it showed it as a 350ci v8, not sure if that matters or not but i changed it to 1600cc 4 cylinder, and 240cc for injector flow)
multiply the ve fuel map by 1.4

this is a video of how it runs with the above settings

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bItfA...ature=youtu.be

If I dont do a combination of the above, the idle is very rough and will usually drop the rpms down to stalling the engine after a few seconds.
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Old 04-10-2012, 08:03 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kruze View Post
So i got the car to idle, im assuming based on the settings its super rich now, anyways in order to get a good idle i had to:

up the warm-up enrichment settings by 40
up required fuel from 11.2 to 14 (in the settings for that it showed it as a 350ci v8, not sure if that matters or not but i changed it to 1600cc 4 cylinder, and 240cc for injector flow)
multiply the ve fuel map by 1.4

this is a video of how it runs with the above settings

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bItfA...ature=youtu.be

If I dont do a combination of the above, the idle is very rough and will usually drop the rpms down to stalling the engine after a few seconds.
I don't think you understand what req fuel does. If you had to multiply your entire VE table, why didn't you just modify req fuel?
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Old 04-10-2012, 08:06 PM   #9
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I don't think you understand what req fuel does. If you had to multiply your entire VE table, why didn't you just modify req fuel?
You're right, I don't, and I'm also betting that at one point in time you were cloudy on it as well. Sharing is caring.
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Old 04-10-2012, 09:27 PM   #10
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So i went and set the timing, here's how I did it let me know if this is how it was supposed to be.

I set the timing in tuner studio to 10 fixed, and then with a timing light checked the mark and adjusted the trigger wizard until the physical mark was at 10 degrees on the indicator (i believe it took a +1.5 adjustment in trigger wizard, after that the realtime gauge showed timing at about 16, and if I press the gas it would climb to about 25ish, not sure if this is right because the car won't rev passed about 3.5k with pedal fully depressed.

I also brought the warm up enrichment back down to the basemap default, brought fuel back down to the 11.2.

I'm still new at this so I'm learning as I go, and any help is appreciated!
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Old 04-10-2012, 10:56 PM   #11
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Is the timing map set to 16 degrees in your idle cells? If so, then that's correct. I would suggest you pick a req fuel value and stick with it. If you keep changing variables (especially one that affects all of your fueling), you'll have a hell of a time getting it to run right. I believe 11.x is fine for req fuel. 16 degrees of timing is pretty high at idle. I'd knock it down to somewhere in the 10-12 range. Make a 2x2 square around your idle region all one timing value to help with idle, then tune VE to get the AFR you want. Your VE values will not all be the same in that 2x2 square on the VE table.

Only tune startup enrichment when it's cold, it's kind of a pain in the ***, but you have to be patient with that one.
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Old 04-10-2012, 11:27 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by albumleaf View Post
Is the timing map set to 16 degrees in your idle cells? If so, then that's correct. I would suggest you pick a req fuel value and stick with it. If you keep changing variables (especially one that affects all of your fueling), you'll have a hell of a time getting it to run right. I believe 11.x is fine for req fuel. 16 degrees of timing is pretty high at idle. I'd knock it down to somewhere in the 10-12 range. Make a 2x2 square around your idle region all one timing value to help with idle, then tune VE to get the AFR you want. Your VE values will not all be the same in that 2x2 square on the VE table.

Only tune startup enrichment when it's cold, it's kind of a pain in the ***, but you have to be patient with that one.
I'll have a look at everything you suggested

Is it harmful to put the lc-1 sensor where the stock o2 sensor is on the header? I'd like to add it there but I don't want to destroy the sensor. The turbo parts are still slowly trickling in the mail so it'll be a little bit before we start throwing everything together, just want to make sure the car is running comparable to stock ecu without anything extra added.

I'll try adjusting a 2x2 idle square on the VE map (i assume I can just right click on a cell and set a timing angle? or is there a different way?) Should I remove the multiplier I added from the fuel map? I may be jumping a bit ahead but whats the process to scale these values to red top 460cc injectors? Once those get sent out for cleaning I'd like to install them before installing the turbo system.

For warmup enrichment I assume the values don't matter too much as long as you end up with no more than 100% fully warmed up, correct?

Thanks a lot
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Old 04-10-2012, 11:34 PM   #13
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I can't say regarding the LC-1. I've been running my UEGO in the OEM sensor location for about a year now without any issues on my 1.6.

In Tuner Studio you left click on the cell, type the value, then click another cell to finalize. After you've changed all the cells you want, burn the table to the Megasquirt. The VE map and the timing map are different, you'll see what I mean. Set the timing first in the idle region (should be in the bottom left corner of the table, you'll see the dot floating around indicating your current rpm/manifold pressure). Burn those values to the MS.

Open the VE table and change the values (then burn them) to get to where you want. I would suggest that you just buy the license to Tunerstudio immediately as VEAL will save you a billion hours of time tuning.

When you swap injectors, then you will change req_fuel via a ratio of your current injector size as the ones you swap in. Search the forum for the calculation, I forget what it is.
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Old 04-10-2012, 11:56 PM   #14
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First thing I did was buy full version of TunerStudio and the log program, figure 80 bucks is a small price to pay in the long run for something that essentially controls the heart of the whole thing.
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Old 04-14-2012, 07:54 AM   #15
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So heres an update, thanks for the help guys, I think im starting to get an idea of how things interact with each other.

Ended up installing the wideband so we could tune.

Warmup enrichment is back to where it was, fuel req set to 11.2 and I removed the multiplier from the VE table. It starts up and runs fine, I locked the timing to 12 during idle.

Car idles very stable, even with AC on.

Using veal we started tuning the car tonight.

Here's a quick video, the video shows pretty much the very beginning of starting to tune, a solid hour later the afr is much more stable and follows the afr chart much better.

How do I set the radiator fans in tuner studio? What temp should they turn on at, since you can see in the video the temp gauges flashes warning red for a split second a couple times.

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Old 04-16-2012, 06:49 AM   #16
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One thing I'm having a little trouble with is cold start. Right now it takes a solid 5-10 seconds of cranking before it fires up. Once it's warmed up I can turn it off and restart it with ease. Any suggestions on improving a cold start?
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Old 04-16-2012, 10:33 AM   #17
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cranking table needs work it sounds like. either too little or too much fuel.
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Old 04-16-2012, 07:39 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by albumleaf View Post
When you swap injectors, then you will change req_fuel via a ratio of your current injector size as the ones you swap in. Search the forum for the calculation, I forget what it is.
+1 to that
from what I understand your Req fuel number is should be a very specific one in relation to injector size and motor displacement. It is not a number that is to be "adjusted". The fuel table is what is to be adjusted. This way when you upgrade to larger injectors you just change the req fuel to the very specific number for those injectors and the car will still run great. This way there is no need to adjust the fuel table when changing injectors.

And don't worry if the proper req fuel number and the diyautotune base map wouldn't idle the car. From what I understand many others (myself included) had to add at least 10 points to every cell on the fuel table from diy's base map to get the car idling good.

And for the lc-1 location. I'm pretty sure you are NOT supposed to put it in the stock header. As far as I am concerned it should be as far away from the motor as possible while still being in front of the cat. That being said I welded the bung for my mtx-l right in front of the cat.

And one more thing. As far as running the stock O2 for the diypnp, I tried that, made tuning very difficult. Narrowband O2's are only considered accurate at or near 14.7.
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Old 04-16-2012, 07:43 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by kruze View Post
One thing I'm having a little trouble with is cold start. Right now it takes a solid 5-10 seconds of cranking before it fires up. Once it's warmed up I can turn it off and restart it with ease. Any suggestions on improving a cold start?
thats great you have the exact opposite problem as me
cold start is great and warm start is not.
i dont think i have even tried messing with the cranking tuning.
it just sucks cuz i have remote start and if i try to use it when the car is warm what ends up happening is the car starts (after a bit) and the remote start keeps tryin to start it while it is running, resulting in grinding. but that is my fault because i haven't even tried to take care of that

sry not trying to threadjack here
please dont address my problem here
just thought i would share that i have the exact opposite problem
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Old 04-16-2012, 08:42 PM   #20
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The lc-1 will be in the stock location for maybe a month or so, until we get the last couple pieces for the turbo project. The downpipe for the turbo will have the o2 spot fitted right in front of the cat, but we just needed something to tune with for now.

I'll see if I can find what the cranking table is and try to adjust some values. The car runs pretty well, we tuned for a couple hours in the middle of the night and got it running pretty well. I now see how a variable load dyno is beneficial.

The 460cc injectors were sent off for cleaning today so hopefully all will be well with them and they should be back sometime this week. Anything I should know about replacing the injectors? Just undo gas cap and unbolt/replace/bolt? Or is there something more to it.
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