Don't do what Joe P does. - Page 2 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


MEGAsquirt A place to collectively sort out this megasquirt gizmo

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 07-13-2010, 12:01 PM   #21
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (10)
 
Reverant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 5,440
Total Cats: 198
Default

Imagining over the phone debugging. Must be tons of fun.
Reverant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2010, 12:03 PM   #22
y8s
2 Props,3 Dildos,& 1 Cat
iTrader: (8)
 
y8s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Fake Virginia
Posts: 19,038
Total Cats: 407
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
it ain't going no where. I've had one like on my MS-I for over 4 years.
is that not your nasty zener? i must be looking at the wrong die-ode.

and yeah, colored wires.
y8s is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2010, 12:05 PM   #23
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (10)
 
Reverant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 5,440
Total Cats: 198
Default

That's not a zener, it looks like a 1N4001 to me.
Reverant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2010, 12:11 PM   #24
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,847
Total Cats: 1,788
Default

The one I left installed isn't pictured.

Basically when I first installed MS3, I was having a horrible problem with misses and erratic idle. Turns out my timing belt was too loose and since MS3 is faster and more accurate with timing, it was causing **** to be out of sync and missing. It was fine with MS-I and MS-II.

Before I realized this, I thought the extra board I built the MS3 around might have some issue. So I modded my old MS-I box, that wasn't running idle mod, for the MS3. When I moved the TIP120 over, I forgot to pull d8.
Braineack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2010, 01:44 PM   #25
Boost Pope
Thread Starter
iTrader: (8)
 
Joe Perez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Chicago (Over two miles from Wrigley Field. Fuck the Cubs. Fuck them in their smarmy goat-hole.)
Posts: 26,317
Total Cats: 1,914
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by skyline397 View Post
i went over ahead of myself and went to boost of like 1psi, later the coolant temp shot up a lil bit but went back down when i slowed down. Is that a sign of denotation?
Sounds more like a sign of making power.

Quote:
Idle dip down to 600rpm when i put car in neutral when slowing down then went back up to normal around 900rpm later, do i have to adjust the acel/decel setting for that?
I don't think we tweaked your idle settings at all. In the first idle screen, raise MinDC and ClosedDC to 21 and see if that helps/


Quote:
Originally Posted by y8s View Post
is that not your nasty zener? i must be looking at the wrong die-ode.
Here's the diode he's talking about:



The diagnonal one is going from the TIP120 that he installed as part of the IAC mod to S12, which says to me that it's a flyback diode.



Scott- I don't see any relay drivers on that board, yet you've done the idle mod. Standalone or not?
Joe Perez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2010, 01:51 PM   #26
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,847
Total Cats: 1,788
Default

I don't have a shot of my current board in it's current state. but yes I'm fully standalone on MS-III and have no complaints...just still finding new features daily.

for example: the 4x4 idle VE table is awesome. I have my rpm/load at: 750,875,950,1000 & 32, 36, 43, 47 kPa. Able to keep afrs within a .5 point spread at idle with ease.

overrun has a "return fuel when X rpm" setting, default it was at 1100RPM, which was just too late to kick the injectors back on...finding that one made idle recovery significantly better.

yesterday I had to run: a/c, headlights, wipers, and my subwoofer. Noticed AFRs went hella rich at idle. Was able to adjust my injector dead time correction % curve since the voltage in that situation dropped from 13.8v to 11.8v...so I had to reduce the default curve a little.
Braineack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2010, 07:08 PM   #27
Senior Member
iTrader: (14)
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Tinley Park, IL
Posts: 1,488
Total Cats: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
which are: D3, D21, C13, C14, D17, D18, R15, R20.

and everything you don't need: D3, D5, D6, D7, D17, D18, D20, D21, C13, C14, Q1, Q3, Q5, Q9, Q10, Q11, Q12, Q13, Q14, Q15, R15, R18, R20, R30, R31, R32, R33, R34, R35, R36, R37, R38

There's like 1/4 of the board populated when you do the P&H board. ctdriftna, is running one on the one I built for him.

It looks kind of wierd without all the circuits in there but look at all the space on that heat sink. Hubba hubba! Sorry about the shitty close up. Bad Riggy! Hopefully the sexy bootloader micro switch will make up for it!



Uploaded with ImageShack.us



Uploaded with ImageShack.us
lordrigamus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2010, 07:13 PM   #28
Boost Pope
Thread Starter
iTrader: (8)
 
Joe Perez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Chicago (Over two miles from Wrigley Field. Fuck the Cubs. Fuck them in their smarmy goat-hole.)
Posts: 26,317
Total Cats: 1,914
Default

Not bringing those drivers out to a separate ground line makes baby Jesus cry.

Looks nice, though. It really is amazing how little it takes to make an engine run.
Joe Perez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2010, 07:38 PM   #29
Senior Member
iTrader: (14)
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Tinley Park, IL
Posts: 1,488
Total Cats: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
Not bringing those drivers out to a separate ground line makes baby Jesus cry.
I know, I was thinking the same thing. All the ground pins on the DB37 have 18 ga wire ran to the block so the ground plane is pretty solid. All the signals are pretty clean. So far there doesn't seem to be any extra signal noise but I have been pondering routing the driver ground out anyway, just for safety's sake. I bet it's sinking a lot of current. 4 amp peak, 2 amp hold, right? Alternating 4 injectors, would it be safe to say it's seeing 8-10 amps with residual voltage or is it cumlative and it's seeing 16 amps?

Last edited by lordrigamus; 07-13-2010 at 07:55 PM. Reason: Broke my quote!
lordrigamus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2010, 08:23 PM   #30
Senior Member
iTrader: (14)
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Tinley Park, IL
Posts: 1,488
Total Cats: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
Looks nice, though. It really is amazing how little it takes to make an engine run.
Thank you! Coming from you, it's quite a compliment.

I still can't believe that it runs on it either. At the same time, I can remember a time when it needed way less than that.

However, user interaction was severely limited and we were at the mercy of how well the mechanical parts behaved especially after they had aged a bit. If I had a choice, I think I would stick with the latter version anyway. No sense in going backward at this point. On that note, press on and sally forth all!
lordrigamus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2010, 06:42 PM   #31
Elite Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Warrington/Birmingham
Posts: 2,658
Total Cats: 39
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
I don't have a shot of my current board in it's current state. but yes I'm fully standalone on MS-III and have no complaints...just still finding new features daily.

for example: the 4x4 idle VE table is awesome. I have my rpm/load at: 750,875,950,1000 & 32, 36, 43, 47 kPa. Able to keep afrs within a .5 point spread at idle with ease.

overrun has a "return fuel when X rpm" setting, default it was at 1100RPM, which was just too late to kick the injectors back on...finding that one made idle recovery significantly better.

yesterday I had to run: a/c, headlights, wipers, and my subwoofer. Noticed AFRs went hella rich at idle. Was able to adjust my injector dead time correction % curve since the voltage in that situation dropped from 13.8v to 11.8v...so I had to reduce the default curve a little.
I want that stuff bad, but also it's more stuff I'll never tune properly

Seriously though the Idle VE table is a big want for me
richyvrlimited is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2010, 06:50 PM   #32
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,847
Total Cats: 1,788
Default

here's my MS3:





Braineack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2010, 07:32 PM   #33
Boost Pope
Thread Starter
iTrader: (8)
 
Joe Perez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Chicago (Over two miles from Wrigley Field. Fuck the Cubs. Fuck them in their smarmy goat-hole.)
Posts: 26,317
Total Cats: 1,914
Default

Putting an MS3 on a Rev 3 board makes baby Jesus cry. Looks like an elephant ******* an octopus...
Joe Perez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2010, 07:37 PM   #34
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,847
Total Cats: 1,788
Default

There's no difference in mods between MS-II and MS-III. just swap daugtherboards. But I have added an a/c input/output (spare 2&3), Fan control (spare 1), High side driver to run fuel pump (Spare 4). Then I have the opto circuit for my second trigger. And the typical Idle, boost, baro.

I didn't make this pretty cause it was my Ms-I board that I didn't want to mod to MS-II/III but I was trying to track down and issue and decided to try the other mainboard.

It sure runs well...so who cares. it'll look worse when i add the ms3x board and run full sequential.
Braineack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2010, 07:49 PM   #35
Boost Pope
Thread Starter
iTrader: (8)
 
Joe Perez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Chicago (Over two miles from Wrigley Field. Fuck the Cubs. Fuck them in their smarmy goat-hole.)
Posts: 26,317
Total Cats: 1,914
Default

There's just no sense keeping the 3.0 / 3.57 design alive any longer. Pretty much every single circuit on it has been obsoleted and replaced with a mod or a daughterboard. The only active part left on it at this point is the power supply regulator.

And yet we keep on using them.

Reminds me of the PC market eons ago, when you could buy, for instance, a little daughterboard that would allow you to plug a 486-SX processor into a motherboard designed for a 386-DX. Or ISA cards to add ATAPI controllers to machines that weren't born with them. Or expansion boards to hold more RAM chips (yes, chips) in addition to what the motherboard was socketed for. Or sidecar modules (now I'm really dating myself) for machines like the PCjr or the TI-99/4A, to add printer ports and whatnot.

Hell, expanding the RAM on the Amiga 1000 (from 512k to 1 meg) and upgrading to the FatAgnus controller involved a soldering iron and an X-acto knife. I think I still have the instructions for that mod (printed on greenbar tractor-fed fanfold paper) somewhere in a box, complete with ASCII-art illustrations.

Remember when **** like that was considered normal? Nowadays, we just chuck the motherboard (or the whole computer) and buy one that's actually correct for the application.

I'm slightly bitter and opinionated about this, in case you can't tell.

Building a Megasquirt for a "normal" car (one with crank and cam triggers, fully sequential injectors and ignition, ECU-controlled fans, a PWM idle valve, variable geometry intake, variable cam timing, etc) should require precisely zero jumpers run across the back of the board, zero transistors in the proto area, zero daughterboards, etc.

Last edited by Joe Perez; 07-19-2010 at 08:02 PM. Reason: Added additional ranting.
Joe Perez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2010, 09:15 PM   #36
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,847
Total Cats: 1,788
Default

working with what i got. $50 spare mainboard + $190 CPU

I like the diypnp myself, i think theyll have a ms3 version soon.
Braineack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2010, 01:15 AM   #37
Senior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,436
Total Cats: 58
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
Reminds me of the PC market eons ago, when you could buy, for instance, a little daughterboard that would allow you to plug a 486-SX processor into a motherboard designed for a 386-DX. Or ISA cards to add ATAPI controllers to machines that weren't born with them. Or expansion boards to hold more RAM chips (yes, chips) in addition to what the motherboard was socketed for. Or sidecar modules (now I'm really dating myself) for machines like the PCjr or the TI-99/4A, to add printer ports and whatnot.

Hell, expanding the RAM on the Amiga 1000 (from 512k to 1 meg) and upgrading to the FatAgnus controller involved a soldering iron and an X-acto knife. I think I still have the instructions for that mod (printed on greenbar tractor-fed fanfold paper) somewhere in a box, complete with ASCII-art illustrations.
I'm glad I went the mechanical route and not the computer engr. or electrical route. More than half of what you just said was Chinese to me.
Enginerd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2010, 02:20 AM   #38
Elite Member
iTrader: (12)
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 1,923
Total Cats: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
Or sidecar modules (now I'm really dating myself) for machines like the PCjr or the TI-99/4A, to add printer ports and whatnot.
Now I really feel old.
JayL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2010, 11:26 AM   #39
Supporting Vendor
 
Matt Cramer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,266
Total Cats: 51
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
There's just no sense keeping the 3.0 / 3.57 design alive any longer. Pretty much every single circuit on it has been obsoleted and replaced with a mod or a daughterboard. The only active part left on it at this point is the power supply regulator.
We had a lot of people asking for an upgrade path from existing MS1s and MS2s to MS3, and Bowling & Grippo wanted a quick proof of concept, which is why there's a setup like this with three PCBs in one box. The MS3 + MS3X is meant to give an option that works for most cars with a few jumper wires but no other components added. However, there are a few post-V3.57 designs out there (DIYPNP, eMS-Pro, arguably the Microsquirt) and more on the drawing board. Like I said, the current MS3 design is a proof of concept; it's not going to be the end of the line.

Still, I don't see the V3.0 and V3.57 going away anytime soon. Generally, MegaSquirt products may get updates (like the jump from V1.01 to V2.2, or the DIYPNP V1.1 to V1.5 jump) but if people still buy them, we'll keep making them.
Matt Cramer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2010, 11:51 AM   #40
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,847
Total Cats: 1,788
Default

I just want in on what the "x-connect" is going to be used for!
Braineack is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Raleigh: Fiberglass headlight scope, 1.6L ECU, AFM, Hardtop latches, more bigmackloud Miata parts for sale/trade 13 09-22-2017 01:34 PM
15x10 - 15x11 6UL @ 949 Racing emilio700 Wheels and Tires 151 06-02-2017 03:36 PM
WTB MP62 (Hotside) (NB2) Rick02R WTB 3 01-03-2016 08:18 PM
Is my swirl pot design okay? FrankB Race Prep 10 10-02-2015 10:00 PM
In need of base map for stock 1997 brandonbkd MEGAsquirt 0 09-29-2015 12:52 AM


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:08 AM.