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Old 08-07-2009, 06:33 PM   #1
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Default F#cking idiot trying to MS it

Alright gents I am way in over my head here and need a little help.

I have a 92 Eunos (I am in england) and with luck it will be getting a shanghai kit in a couple of months. In the interest of starting a step ahead of the game I am trying to get the MS up and going now. I built the unit as per Brainiack's directions on the "how to" thread, and it worked fine with the stim. Then did the mods for spark input/output, and fan control (leaving EBC in the bag until I need it). and the stim still worked but no more blinking led's and no tach input. I presume this is because I have now changed the spark in out and the stim doesn't work that way.

So I am a complete Noob as far as computer programming goes and I am doing all I can to keep up, but frankly I dont know a directory from a file.

So using these directions from braineacks post https://www.miataturbo.net/forum/t37708/ I have updated the firmware to msnse hr But I now get the same warning the original poster in that thread got- controller code version does not match
Expected-MSnS-extra format 029q
Received- MS/Extra format hr_10

And when I tell it to start anyway as he had the gauges all flicker, and the launch contol light is on, and the knock and NOS lights flash (sporadicly).

And with that I am hopelessly lost. Do I also need to "enable" the High res code? How do I do that? Is there a write up that I can follow to start completely from scratch and get it going with the MSPNP maps ect?

Also I have built my harness as per the "how to" with a plug I scavanged from a dead ECU. I did try plugging it in to the car to see if the inputs were working (IAC, CLT, ect) and got absoulutly nothing. No led's on the box, no life in Megatune, squat. I have since found a post from joe perez that says all the unused pins across the top of the db-37 #7 thru 19, should be bridged to ground. Is That right? Perhaps thats why none of it was working for me?

And before you all assume I am in fact in over my head and should just buy an e-manage, I am in fact a factory trained Porsche mechanic. I do have a pretty thorough understanding of engine sensors, wiring, and all of that. But what you all say about dealer tech's is right. We replace the computer when it does this, we don't re program it.

So if anyone can, please point me in the right direction. This is becoming un-fun.
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Old 08-07-2009, 06:42 PM   #2
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After the spark mod the tach wont work.

The "code version doesnt match" is because you forgot to toss the hi res ini file into the MT folder.

Before you attempt to start the car, did you at least put a map on it?

What did you use to burn the MSNSE firmware to the unit, and which version?
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Old 08-07-2009, 07:13 PM   #3
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I used the links in this thread https://www.miataturbo.net/forum/t37708/ for the MSNSE and easytherm. And I used easytherm to burn in the firmware. I am not going to try starting the car until I am fairly sure I have the MS unit up and going and at the moment it is damn sure not working as it should. (in fact as I have been warned so many times about it I am terrified to have the ms and the igniter plugged in at the same time).

Not to put too fine a point on it, but how do I "toss the hi res ini file into the MT folder" Ie: what does that mean. Where do i find the hr ini? in the hr_10g zip file? and where exactly in Megatune do I "toss" it?

Thanks for the help.
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Old 08-07-2009, 07:58 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blaize View Post
Not to put too fine a point on it, but how do I "toss the hi res ini file into the MT folder" Ie: what does that mean. Where do i find the hr ini? in the hr_10g zip file? and where exactly in Megatune do I "toss" it?
Inside the .zip file that contained the HiRes code are several files that you need to copy over.

Most important is msns-extra.ini. This file needs to go into C:\program files\megasquirt\megatune2.25\mtcfg In fact, there's a batch file called copyini.bat provided in the distribution to do this for you.

In the distribution there is a /src/ directory, and in that is a file called kpafactor4250.inc which needs to be copied into the same target directory as above.

Don't worry too much if this all sounds daft. It is, but fortunately this isn't something that you have to do often.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Saml01 View Post
After the spark mod the tach wont work.
Guh? Which tach are we referring to?
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Old 08-08-2009, 01:43 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
Guh? Which tach are we referring to?
We is referring to the one in MT when you use a plain Stim.
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Old 08-08-2009, 11:28 AM   #6
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Go here: Index of /MS/msq/firmware

1. Copy msns-extra.ini and msns-extra.ini.hr10 to C:\Program Files\MegaSquirt\MegaTune2.25\mtCfg

Open the Megatune Software

go to file > Configurator

under MegaTune2.25, highlight msns-extra.ini.hr10, then go to file activate.
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Old 08-08-2009, 11:31 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saml01 View Post
We is referring to the one in MT when you use a plain Stim.
Gotcha. Missed that part when I was reading the original post.

I do wish that DIY would post up some kind of disclaimer to the effect of "Warning, this device, while cheaper than the JimStim, is unable to simulate vehicles with two-channel triggers" or something...
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Old 08-08-2009, 12:16 PM   #8
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So today, (before you posted the above directions Brain, thanks I'll give that a try) I went out to the car and tried to plug it in again to check the inputs and see if the sensors were feeding into the MS properly. ANd the damn unit does not seem to even power up. Laptop does not see it. Works fine with the stim. but plugged into the car nada. I removed the cover for the db37 plug and used a meter to check that power and ground was/is getting thru. It is, on the correct pins so far as I can tell. Its all wired as I said, the way brain's "how to" says to do it.

Meanwhile 15 min. or so passes while I test it all. So I gave up on it, and plugged the factory ecu and sensors back in, tried to start it, and the damn thing is hydro locked. This of course sent me on a 45 min routine pulling plugs and spraying fuel all over the underside of the hood, the re installing and cranking for 5 min. only to realize I forgot to plug the ignitor back in and now had to do it all again.

Big Fun

The fuel pump was not actually plugged into the MS so I suppose it was just the residual pressure in the fuel rail and then, syphon action that filled the cylinders.

Any of that sound familiar to anyone? wont talk to the laptop, and holds the injectors open?

Thanks for the directions Brain I'll try that later and perhaps give it another go in the morning. I have dived into replacing speakers with the rest of the day as this way I wont end up with more fuel in my hair (dripping off the underside of the hood)
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Old 08-08-2009, 03:23 PM   #9
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Nope still no joy. I tried to drag and drop those two files into the mtCfg, all it does is drop in shortcuts to the webpages. I did look in there and I appear to already have them both anyway. I did the procedure to activate the high res code, the started MT, no difference. Then I tried it again this time clicking file>save, after activating it, still no luck. Should I be checking what firmware is on the MS? Is there a way to do that or do I just re-burn it if I am not sure? Would I be better off erasing everything and starting over?

As an asside when it is powered up on the stim, the two outer led's light up and the IG light on the stim. Nothing flashes. That normal?

(new speakers sound great by the way. I know you were all dying to know)
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Old 08-09-2009, 11:32 PM   #10
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I had the same error and copying and activating it simply did not work. I emailed diyautotune and I got it fixed.

"The megatune reading differently from the hi_res10 firmware was fixed after I renamed "msns-extra.ini.hr10" to "msns-extra.ini" in both the mtCfg folder in megatune and in whatever project folder it's in."

That's what I did.
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Old 08-10-2009, 01:49 PM   #11
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Blaise, my guess is you may have the VREF line shorting out on something. Test the voltage at pin 26 when you plug the MS in on the car and power it up. Are you getting a good 5 volts there, or something lower.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
Gotcha. Missed that part when I was reading the original post.

I do wish that DIY would post up some kind of disclaimer to the effect of "Warning, this device, while cheaper than the JimStim, is unable to simulate vehicles with two-channel triggers" or something...
Done!
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Old 08-10-2009, 04:10 PM   #12
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thanks for all the input. I wont have the car in front of me again until Wednesday, Weather permitting I'll get back to it then. Mean time I am going to completely delete and re-install all the software on my laptop. At this point it has all been dicked with so much I have multiple copies of things and it is making a bad thing worse. I presume the mspnp software package is the best way to go?
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Old 08-10-2009, 06:20 PM   #13
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Wha-hey!! Some success, I deleted everything, loaded the mspnp software package and managed to re burn the firmware and update the fuel map to the psp maps. I presume this map will work? I know me stealing the maps doesn't help the bottom line Matt, but I did buy the kit from you guys so go easy.

And of course what this all really means is that now I have ms-extra loaded to both the ms and the laptop and megatune works as it should (on the stim at least). No flashing gauges and no warnings when I turn it on. So I am getting somewhere.

Still no idea what the problem is with the car. Or rather the harness to the car. I'll unplug the injectors on Wed. and get in there with a multi meter to check every wire.

Any thoughts on the pnp software? Is a brain "how-to" built MS the same as the pnp? why do they have you remove that fuse? what are they doing different?
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Old 08-11-2009, 01:26 PM   #14
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As long as you're running the same firmware and map together, we encourage MSPNP map stealing. It means I don't have to talk as many people through getting their MS up and running.

The fuse is for a unique fuel pump circuit in the MSPNP that is meant to give the MSPNP control over the fuel pump relay through the starting circuit. I don't believe Scott uses it.
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Old 08-11-2009, 01:40 PM   #15
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nope, I don't, but a MSPNP base map should work fine
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Old 08-12-2009, 05:01 PM   #16
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Well as promised I tried again today, but the MS does not power up in the car. I brought the stim and a 9v batt out there with me and if I plug it in all is ok, megatune springs to life. Switch to the car harness and nothing. I checked for power and ground at the db37 and it is there. But no life at all. Any ideas? Anyone? I am well and truly stumped.

If the MS receives nothing but power and ground will it power up? About all I can think of to do is to un-solder the harness down to just those two wires and then one by one reattach them until it shuts down. About all I can come up with to solve this. Any other ideas?

And to answer your earlier question Matt, no there is no 5v output on the ref wire, but as there is no activity at all I doubt this is a problem.
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Old 08-13-2009, 01:57 PM   #17
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Yes, it'll power up if it just has power and ground. Are you sure the ref wire isn't shorted to ground? That will keep it from powering up.
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Old 08-13-2009, 06:12 PM   #18
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Ah, I wasn't thinking of it that way Matt. I thought you were suggesting it was somehow shorted inside the MS. I Have not but will check the harness in the car. Thanks.
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Old 08-13-2009, 06:49 PM   #19
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Just occured to me- I have the factory tps wired in as per the little diagram on Brainiac's how to. Just found another wiring post by J. Perez and he says you dont use the tps with a 1.6. Now I realise the 1.6 tps is actually just a throttle switch, but should it not be wired at all? How does the pnp deal with this?

And not to open a whole new can of worms, but what should I use to upgrade to a real tps? Common parts from another car?

Edit-just did a bit of searching. Auto tps is the answer right. Looks like I need the harness pigtail as well.
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Old 08-13-2009, 07:22 PM   #20
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the right answer is this: https://www.miataturbo.net/forum/t12239/#post157397

I have my diagrams wired so you can perform this mod and have vtps without hacking connectors or running wires.
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