FYI matmsm, your ignition table is in piston melting territory, and your AFR targets are also fairly lean.

AFR is going super rich above ~90% duty cycle despite similar VE, which suggests to me they're locking open and just dumping uncontrolled fuel. Turn off boost control or stop driving the car until injectors are swapped or fuel pressure is checked, this VE tuning is pointless.

 

The ae change made the most significant change drivability wise. To be honest the VE changes are still hard to feel for me physically, but EGO is definitely doing a lot less work now. A lot of things have been changing with the car, so it's tough to tell. I will get some more driving in soon.


Both the ignition and AFR Target tables are from the base map. I assumed they would be designed to be as safe or safer than stock. I don't know how to tune them on the street yet, so I've just let them be. Would you recommend retarding/lowering target on most of the table a bit for more safety?

That is super interesting, thank you for pointing it out. That makes sense, it totally does just split off target and drop above 90dc.

Injectors are coming soon, with pump, regulator, etc.(still unsure if I can stay returnless for my needs).
I'll turn boost control off for now, but is running rich like that really that dangerous?
Pointless in the sense that it will have to be redone once a different fueling solution gets installed - sure. But I don't mind going through the reps since I'm just learning

 

Absolutely not pointless . I already mentioned that the injectors need replacing. People....

 

My point is you shouldn't be tuning a VE table before addressing the rest of the tables, I already mentioned that, person.

He's got consistent lean spots at ~4000 and ~5000, I'm still waiting for your tool to fix those. Fuel table looks pretty rough, if he ever dips below 6.5psi, he's got more fuel than at 13psi.

I tune cars professionally on the dyno, have worked with many others around the world, and have done so for 10+ years. I'm trying to give you sound advice; this tool will break more engines then it'll fix. Address the bullet wound from the smoking gun, THEN the paper cut.

 

mine lost compression in c3, unrelated i assume. So i am done anyway

 

How would I begin addressing these tables without a dyno, can you please point me in the right direction? Almost every resource I've looked at has said to get the ve table stable before making changes to anything else.

I am a little confused by the cynicism. Maybe it's hate towards anything ai.
The tool seems to be just a version of autotune/Tune Analyze Live, with the ability to give some minor feedback on reasoning. Sure it's not getting live feedback on changes, but it also doesn't seem to be making drastic changes that can cause catastrophic failure.

 

If you google "Trubokitty base map ignition table" you'll find at least a few threads on here talking about how it's overly advanced...

I don't think everyone on here hates AI, I think it's about people using AI and being over confident in it. There are plenty of videos where people have tried to use AI to tune a car and it's given poor results. I'm not saying that's the case here, but I think what Curly is getting at is that you can spend all day dialing in the VE table and then once you've got your fuel system sorted you're going to have to redo a lot of it.

It'd be like trying to fine tune suspension settings when you've got no engine in the car. Yeah, you've got to get the suspension bolted up and roughly adjusted, but there are bigger fish to fry first.

 

Probably not. Your fueling does look good, although you're still in the 12's until 9psi. But your ignition table is too advanced.

I highlighted 6 cells. What I recommend @7000rpm is on the left, what you were running at 7000rpm is on the right. You can see at 100kpa (naturally aspirated/no boost) was ok, but above that you're 2-12 degrees advanced from "safe".

If the ignition table melted a piston, OP is not to blame. As stated your fuel table is matching targets. But the rest of the tune needs to be looked at before doing countless pulls to redline.

 

As simple as it may seem, thank you for this direction. I read through the majority of those threads and it does seem like the consensus is that the table is aggressive. I've got 93 in my area so I would probably be fine, but I will retard a bit in boost for some more safety until I hit the dyno.

That's fair, and I would agree with you if I were paying someone to tune the car. But so far it has just been a trade of time for experience.

But surely you would agree that it's beneficial to get the suspension bolted up and roughly adjusted while waiting on the engine, even if it's just for the learning experience. Rather than just sitting with a roller in the garage and going into it blind when the time comes.

 

That's literally the exact point I was making. Roughing in the VE table makes sense but if you're overloading your fuel system on a spark map that's too advanced then the "engine out of the car analogy" might be a lot less of an analogy soon.

If you want to learn then I'd encourage it, but idle and cruise are way better places to learn than in boost.

 

pistons are intact, im on e85 and iirc i had lowered timing from that tune i sent to taper up to 21 at redline, from 16 at peak tq

 

That's all I'm here for TIL that the trubokitty base maps claimed "loaded with a safe spark and fuel map" is not so safe after all.

 

curly =====> "He's got consistent lean spots at ~4000 and ~5000, I'm still waiting for your tool to fix those."

Ok My tool targeted exactly that on the the last round, here is the .msq that was loaded when he did the last round. With the new VE table applied Any one can reproduce this by downloading the .msq and applying the table i sent.





================================================== ==============================================


The tool obviously works you just seem to have an issue. How so... show me one correction that went in the wrong direction... I have personally tested this on 4 cars and they run better than they ever have.

BloopDogMatmsm Directed at Bloop Dog ==== Come on man he made several passes with my tool and you said your self the fueling looks good. But my tool will wreck peoples car,

I am just gonna let the data speak for it's self not sit here and listen to you lie and contradict yourself.




Bloop Dogs first log:





Bloop Dogs last log.

 

Man what happened ? This dude wants badly for me to be wrong it just is not the case. My goal was to get your boost to a safe level without overshoot, the fix VE table was about due for a smoothing pass, Just because this dude says he has been doing the Dyno tunes for 10 years does not mean he is any good a lot of people work jobs for a long time and do just enough to get by, I hope your car is ok by the sound of it that base map was not kind to it. Nothing i was doing was causing harm to anything actually i was trying to dial your car and be as careful as possible about it....

 

Dude, I'm not saying your tool doesn't work, I'm just saying there's more to tuning than just a fuel table.

I've tuned hundreds of Miata's on dynos, remotely, and on this very forum. I work at a successful race shop that's definitely not replacing Miata, BMW, Ford, Chevy, and other makes of engines every time I tune them. They don't blow up because I'm looking at the entire package, not just the fuel table. I didn't get over 15,000 posts by spewing nonsense here either, albeit the first few thousands probably were.

 

You kinda did exactly that: ::

But it did and I proved it:



You being a Mod on this forum people will take your word as the gospel, and I am trying to help people this will scare people away from ever giving the tool a shot.

I get that completely which is why in my initial post I mentioned only tuning the VE table, but since other issues were present I tried to help with those as well.

And I misread this. You were talking about how you were told that the AFR was lean and the Spark was too aggressive.


Overall I am not trying to step on any toes here I am trying to solve a real issue with VE tuning as lots of people have issues with the Auto Tune and VE analyze going in circles. I am likely making the tool free but want to gather as much data as possible to ensure that it will run across all setups, prolly gonna host it at Gihub and maybe just put a link to my Paypal and Cash app with something like if this tool helped you then buy me a beer or send me a dollar if you can.To maybe compensate me for the thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours of time I have invested in this thing. The tool for sure works I am just trying to ensure that if and when I turn it loose, some one applying a 10 VE correction manually based on the data the tool gives them does not break anything my car is my baby and I am pretty sure a lot of people feel the same; and applying an aggresive fix had better be backed by solid data, from this thread I have already gathered enough data to make a couple changes and squash some bugs....


This was a cheap shot, and I owe you an apology but it was directly in response to what you said here

Also a cheap shot by you, if the tool was making corrections in the wrong direction then it would have been warranted. But this was uncalled for and unsupported by any data in the thread.


Edit: @curly The Next car that you tune on a dyno, perhaps you could share the data log from a car with mega squirt and then I run my tool on that log, you then send the corrections that you made manually on the VE table.Only after I have ran it thru my tool... We can then compare the results, I'd like to see how my tool compares to a professional grade tune on a Dyno