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Old 12-31-2011, 02:00 PM   #1
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Default Halp! MS1 Harness Corrected! Fixed Errors But Won't Run

I've been busy educating myself. But I've got a question...

I bought a MS1 from Rharris19 that was built by Brain. The harness between the DB37 and the 64pin connector had some mistakes so I am double checking everything. And I need some answers if you guys can help. (My car is a '96)





The fuel pump purple wire wasn't in the right place on the 64 pin connector. It was hooked to the purge solenoid circuit, so I moved it to position 1U and verified the correct color wire on the vehicle side.

I also moved the little jumper wire for the A/C circuit from position 1Q to position 1K and verified the wire color and vehicle wiring diagram on the vehicle side.


Now I wanted to double check the DB37 since a couple of things were incorrect on the 64 pin side. The colored wires all seem to be correctly located. The grounds do not per your pinout diagram.

The shield is not grounded at all. It is definitely not hooked to pin 2.

There is a black (I assume ground wire) connected to pin 3.

There is a black (I assume ground) wire in positions 9-10-11-12-13. But not 7-8-9 and 17-18-19 like you have pictured here. Is this wrong or was it done correctly due to some running change and the diagram wasn't updated?

I was worried because of the other errors in the other end of the harness.

Thanks guys.

Steve
Attached Thumbnails
Halp! MS1 Harness Corrected! Fixed Errors But Won't Run-005510.jpg   Halp! MS1 Harness Corrected! Fixed Errors But Won't Run-005509.jpg   Halp! MS1 Harness Corrected! Fixed Errors But Won't Run-005508.jpg   Halp! MS1 Harness Corrected! Fixed Errors But Won't Run-9697_standalone_harness.jpg   Halp! MS1 Harness Corrected! Fixed Errors But Won't Run-db37_ms_pinouts.jpg  


Last edited by sixshooter; 01-04-2012 at 10:51 PM.
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Old 12-31-2011, 03:16 PM   #2
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I thought these pics may possibly be useful as well:



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Halp! MS1 Harness Corrected! Fixed Errors But Won't Run-005504.jpg   Halp! MS1 Harness Corrected! Fixed Errors But Won't Run-005505.jpg  
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Old 12-31-2011, 04:14 PM   #3
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Are you sure it is for the right year. Even between 94-97 there are a lot of changes in the wiring. Also if I'm not mistaken a few of those diagrams are wrong. If it's right on the DB37 side, and wrong on the other, I'm willing to bet either your diagram is wrong, or it is for a different year.
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Old 12-31-2011, 07:24 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FRT_Fun View Post
Are you sure it is for the right year. Even between 94-97 there are a lot of changes in the wiring. Also if I'm not mistaken a few of those diagrams are wrong. If it's right on the DB37 side, and wrong on the other, I'm willing to bet either your diagram is wrong, or it is for a different year.
The diagram on the 64 pin side is wrong in that the three different connectors from the car's harness that plug into it are not all turned the way they are pictured in the diagram. That really screwed me up at first. I really thought it was for the wrong car. But when I held the 64 pin connector up to the car's harness and saw the flip of the one connector was necessary to plug it in, all of the colors corresponded except for the couple I mentioned so I think it is right. I double checked with other years and they are all much different. This was almost correct. I also verified the car's harness wire colors matched the supposed functions of the MS harness.

It really is the DB37 side that has me pretty concerned now. If Brain built the MS and the ground wires on this DB37 don't match his schematic then I might have a problem. I can't have been the first one to have bought a Brain built MS1 so I'm hoping someone has an idea (PM'd Brain early this morning but he hasn't been online).

I'd like to get this thing running over this long weekend if possible.
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Old 12-31-2011, 07:46 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sixshooter View Post
I've been busy educating myself. But I've got a question...

The fuel pump purple wire wasn't in the right place on the 64 pin connector. It was hooked to the purge solenoid circuit, so I moved it to position 1U and verified the correct color wire on the vehicle side.

I also moved the little jumper wire for the A/C circuit from position 1Q to position 1K and verified the wire color and vehicle wiring diagram on the vehicle side.
Good catch on that. I had built my first few 96-97 harnesses based on a bad diagram I pulled off the net. those were the two pins in question.

Quote:
The shield is not grounded at all. It is definitely not hooked to pin 2.
it never does, ignore.

Quote:
There is a black (I assume ground wire) connected to pin 3.
Not a ground, it connects to that circuit on JS0 on the board. Just a spare output circuit is what it looks like--where does it attach on the oem harness?


Quote:
There is a black (I assume ground) wire in positions 9-10-11-12-13. But not 7-8-9 and 17-18-19 like you have pictured here. Is this wrong or was it done correctly due to some running change and the diagram wasn't updated?


pins 1&2 & 7-19 are all grounds.


Besides the two wires you fixed, everything else looks good. I absolutely built it, dont worry.
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Old 01-01-2012, 10:36 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
Good catch on that. I had built my first few 96-97 harnesses based on a bad diagram I pulled off the net. those were the two pins in question.
RHarris19 said it should already have the basemap for 460cc injectors in it. Does this mean I can just connect all of the wires and it will likely fire up? I ask this because all of the write-ups I have been reading are for MS1's that don't have firmware or basemaps in them yet and the instructions require flashing everything.

I don't know if I still need to use Easytherm or if the values are already present in the basemap for the GM IAT sender that came with the MS (he had never installed or run this MS).


Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
Not a ground, it connects to that circuit on JS0 on the board. Just a spare output circuit is what it looks like--where does it attach on the oem harness?
Ahh, it it the tach signal going to 4L! Thank you. I should have looked to see where it was going without being asked.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
Besides the two wires you fixed, everything else looks good. I absolutely built it, dont worry.
But I do worry so much. I really enjoy the challenge of learning something new but I hate having to bother other people with questions I just can't seem to find the answers to. I don't like being needy and bothersome.

Thank you very much for your patience and help.

Who drew the 64pin diagram? If I had a program to redraw it properly with the number 1 and number 4 connectors flipped I would. It really screwed me up for awhile. The fan control pins are on the outside edge of the 64pin instead of toward the middle as shown in the diagram. And the number 4 connector is situated with the injector outputs toward the outside of the 64pin and not the inside as is shown. I don't think Paint would be a good program for me to use for it, lol. Maybe an Excel sheet would work out.
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Old 01-01-2012, 11:06 AM   #7
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I drew it that way because that's the way the pinouts are always displayed in the manuals.

But we like to look at them on the other side, so it's all in reverse.

if you want them in excel, try this: http://www.diyautotune.com/diypnp/ap...7-18bp-mt.html
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Old 01-01-2012, 11:15 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
I drew it that way because that's the way the pinouts are always displayed in the manuals.

But we like to look at them on the other side, so it's all in reverse.

if you want them in excel, try this: http://www.diyautotune.com/diypnp/ap...7-18bp-mt.html
What about the Easytherm question?
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Old 01-01-2012, 11:30 AM   #9
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Unless you need to change the firmware, it's going to be good to go.
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Old 01-01-2012, 11:37 AM   #10
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Thank you so much! I will update on the progress.

I guess it is time to start a real build thread.
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Old 01-01-2012, 04:51 PM   #11
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Crap. One of my 460's is hung open. It tried to crank and sputtered a bit. When I pulled number 3 plug out it was soaked. I pulled the injectors and I can blow air through number three. :(

I guess I send it back to DeatschWerks and see if they can do anything with it. It sat in a box for about 2 years after being cleaned so I guess it is bound to happen to a certain percentage of them. Disappointing for sure.

I guess I could either try a basemap that will work on my stock injectors or be patient in the meantime and let it sit. It would be smartest to leave it alone and fix the injector I guess.
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Old 01-01-2012, 05:23 PM   #12
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Throw in your stock injectors, change required fuel and run with it.
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Old 01-01-2012, 06:10 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shuiend View Post
Throw in your stock injectors, change required fuel and run with it.
I thought about it. I cleaned everything up for tonight and boxed up the 460 injectors. I'm going to have Deatschwerks go through all of them again as a preventative measure. I don't want to f anything up when I start adding a little positive intake pressure later on.

I may reinstall the stock injectors tomorrow and try it. I need to get familiar with the MS software anyway.

Hey, here's a quick question I'm going to have to look up next: If the req fuel is set up for 460's do I just reduce whatever the number is by the percentage of the size difference to the stock 265cc (I think that's what comes in a '96)? I think that is what I remember but I'm going to go searching for the answer in a minute.
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Old 01-01-2012, 11:35 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sixshooter View Post
I thought about it. I cleaned everything up for tonight and boxed up the 460 injectors. I'm going to have Deatschwerks go through all of them again as a preventative measure. I don't want to f anything up when I start adding a little positive intake pressure later on.

I may reinstall the stock injectors tomorrow and try it. I need to get familiar with the MS software anyway.

Hey, here's a quick question I'm going to have to look up next: If the req fuel is set up for 460's do I just reduce whatever the number is by the percentage of the size difference to the stock 265cc (I think that's what comes in a '96)? I think that is what I remember but I'm going to go searching for the answer in a minute.
There is a place in the fuel settings where you enter the size of the injectors, along with engine displacement, and the number of cylinders. Then it will rescale the required fuel for you. Everything else should scale properly.
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Old 01-02-2012, 09:37 AM   #15
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There is a place in the fuel settings where you enter the size of the injectors, along with engine displacement, and the number of cylinders. Then it will rescale the required fuel for you. Everything else should scale properly.
In TunerStudio? I think I was looking in the wrong place.
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Old 01-02-2012, 09:54 AM   #16
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In TunerStudio? I think I was looking in the wrong place.
Basic/Load->Engine and Sequential settings -> Required Fuel box. At least that is where it is at for MS3. It should be in a similar spot for MS1.
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Old 01-02-2012, 11:06 PM   #17
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I worked on this for a few hours earlier before I figured out, "Hey wait a minute. My base tune's req fuel was at 13 when I opened it. That's a 265cc injector req fuel isn't it? I was told this had a basemap for 460's in it already. That means I'm barking up the wrong tree." Is this right?

After figuring that out I tried to get it to run with the base map that was in it on the stock '96 injectors but it wouldn't work. It actually ran better with the 460's (on 2 or 3 cylinders) with one injector hung open and flooding out. I wonder what this map is for?

Brain, do you have a msq that will likely work with the 265cc injectors with the way this MS is built? I deleted the MAF.

Edit: The msq that was in the MS is now attached. Please look at it and tell me what I'm doing wrong.
Attached Files
File Type: msq 2012-01-02_12.32.14.msq (36.8 KB, 47 views)

Last edited by sixshooter; 01-02-2012 at 11:31 PM.
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Old 01-04-2012, 10:51 PM   #18
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Please look at my msq.
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Old 01-04-2012, 11:10 PM   #19
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Did you even try to alter your REQ fuel? I opened your tune up and it wasn't configured correctly. Did you do what Lars told you to? And your REQ fuel should be something like 6.6 with your injectors. If your map is scaled off of bunk settings, you're just wasting your time messing with the tune.

BTW, if you wind up needing new injectors, I got the hookup.
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Old 01-05-2012, 09:43 AM   #20
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Did you even try to alter your REQ fuel? I opened your tune up and it wasn't configured correctly. Did you do what Lars told you to? And your REQ fuel should be something like 6.6 with your injectors. If your map is scaled off of bunk settings, you're just wasting your time messing with the tune.
The req fuel for 460cc or the stock 265cc? The req fuel for 265cc should be near 13, amirite? So I was figuring this was likely a stock injector map? Maybe?

2nd question for you, is this set properly for MAF delete? I think it is because it said something about speed density algorithm but I'm having trouble being sure.
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