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Old 07-27-2011, 01:45 PM   #1
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Default ignition help wont rev past 2500rpm's

ive got a 95 escort gt with the bp in it, ive been messing with getting ms2 to work after upgrading from ms1. i need some info on the 4/1 cam sensor settings, i need the angle between main and return. right now its set at 50 when i got it back. itll start and rev up but once you get to 2500 rpms it sounds like its missfiring or something. i set the trigger angle with a timing light after i set it to 10 degrees timing instead of use map function, but it didnt effect it much, if any at all. ill post the msq and the log file from the other day, maybe someone can see something im missing.

thanks,
josh

this is kind of an extension of this thread where he finally got it running, but im having issues still, if anyone can help...
https://www.miataturbo.net/showthrea...ighlight=md323
Attached Files
File Type: msq ms2ebptegt.msq (79.4 KB, 69 views)
File Type: msl shawn.msl (1.29 MB, 73 views)
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Old 07-27-2011, 04:17 PM   #2
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Do you hav spark on all cyls?

Have a great day,
Jared
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Old 07-27-2011, 04:19 PM   #3
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ya i can plug in the ms1 and it runs fine, i plug in the ms2 it gets all funky . it will idle and start fine, its just when you get a load on it around 2500 and up
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Old 07-27-2011, 04:22 PM   #4
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input method between MSI and MSII needs to be inverted.

I'm assuming the polarity of your crank/cam outputs are different like the miata CAS.
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Old 07-27-2011, 04:25 PM   #5
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not sure i understand what your saying, like the cam and crank signals need to be switched? it was running on shawns car before he sent it up he didnt have a problem with like this.
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Old 07-27-2011, 04:37 PM   #6
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Did you wire up launch control?
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Old 07-27-2011, 04:39 PM   #7
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launch was on the board from ms1, its on iac1a. cam is iac1b, ebc is iac2a and fan is iac2b
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Old 07-27-2011, 04:41 PM   #8
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The 2nd trigger in is a 4n25 built in the proto area by me, I could rev it on my car but I'm not boosted.

That is a thought, turn off launch and see if it makes a difference.
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Old 07-27-2011, 04:41 PM   #9
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Your .msq is set for basic trigger not dual wheel 4/1.

Also your fuel table is quite untuned. Notice how the numbers go from ~50 to ~100 between 2600 and 3000 rpm bins. I wouldn't expect it to want to rev up there. You need to tune your fuel--after verifying your base timing.
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Old 07-27-2011, 04:45 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yunvmyegt View Post
not sure i understand what your saying, like the cam and crank signals need to be switched? it was running on shawns car before he sent it up he didnt have a problem with like this.
Without knowning how your CAS outputs, I only know about the miata.

The miata CAS has an inverted polarity on one output compared to the other. On the MSI the typical TACHSELECT to OPTOIN | TSEL to OPTOUT input is all you need for the crank, however, the cam signal is invereted.

MS2 and MS3 requires the crank and cam sensors to have the same polarity.

So this is why when someone with a miata MS install upgrades to MSII, they also have to redo the input circuit for the crank to output at the same polarity as the cam.
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Old 07-27-2011, 04:47 PM   #11
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Our 4+1 CAS is like the 96-97 miata cas for refference
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Old 07-27-2011, 04:49 PM   #12
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ya i dunno how that got like that, heres the one im using right now. but ya the fuel maps all over the place right now, i drove on veal and it didnt do much for it, even on easy....

heres the right msq, and the tigger log i sent him earlier

oh and launch is off so is overboost and anything else i could find that would make it do this
Attached Files
File Type: msq ms2ebptegtREV.msq (79.4 KB, 70 views)
File Type: csv 2011-07-27_13.36.43.csv (101.9 KB, 67 views)
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Old 07-27-2011, 04:49 PM   #13
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then it's possible on this MS2, you simply need to change the input for the crank, but not sure how it was about to sync in the first place then to get you to 2500rpm.
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Old 07-28-2011, 12:28 AM   #14
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plugged ms1 back in it runs great, so its nothing with the car, what am i missing here? anyone have any ideas of something else to check tomarrow?
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Old 07-28-2011, 08:28 AM   #15
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why all the hate?


this is what I'm saying.




but im also assuming your MS2 has the firmware loaded and a msq loaded that should run the car.
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Old 07-28-2011, 10:20 AM   #16
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I don't think anyones hating?

I'm trying to fill in info since I did the MS2 upgrade for him, I did all the mods according to the wiki and then after I could not get it to run I put in the 2nd 4n25 and loaded my maps and started my car. Putted it around my block and then shipped it to yumvmegt.

Our CAS is identical to the 96-97 miata cas except it has a ditributor on top and 1 trigger on the inner ring as apposed to 2.

He started it and reported back the revving issue. After this we doublechecked the timing, logged a few different runs and he posted up here since im away for work and don't have any of my MS stuff plus you guys are pretty helpful usually
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Old 07-28-2011, 10:28 AM   #17
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Another note: I did the joe perez spark mod (except for only since we trigger a dizzy) which fires a mitsu ignitor and a single coil.

He reported that when it happens RPM is steady on the MS while the dash tach bounces (its trigger off the negative side of the coil). In his log map drops off, he gets a lean spike and I bit:y come on then the rpms drop off .


I changed his deccel fuel to 100% and I'm going have him try it today
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Old 07-28-2011, 10:30 AM   #18
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The datalog you posted didn't' show any sync loss events.

I'm still going with "Very badly tuned fuel table for 1000 please Alex."

I don't see any use in running 4/1 as opposed to basic trigger, as you have a dizzy and batch fire injection. I'd ignore the 1 tooth wheel as it won't provide benefit and can only cause problems if there's a signal issue.
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Old 07-28-2011, 10:32 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MD323 View Post
Another note: I did the joe perez spark mod (except for only since we trigger a dizzy) which fires a mitsu ignitor and a single coil.

He reported that when it happens RPM is steady on the MS while the dash tach bounces (its trigger off the negative side of the coil). In his log map drops off, he gets a lean spike and I bit:y come on then the rpms drop off .


I changed his deccel fuel to 100% and I'm going have him try it today
That means misfire. Does the ignitor get hot with the key on and engine not running?
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Old 07-28-2011, 11:32 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben View Post
That means misfire. Does the ignitor get hot with the key on and engine not running?
Last I had him check he said no, but ill wait for him to check.


Also neither of us could get either his or my car to run on basic trigger which is what led to me building the 2nd opto circiut in the first place.


I've never tuned a motor on E85 car so I was hesitant to insist his map was bad but after reading up on it I redid his map like a gas motor and turned off all the corrections and asked him to autotune it like it was a clean slate. Still waiting to see how that turns out I can also post my changes if anyone wants to fiddle with it.


If all else fails he's only another 200 miles out of the way on my 1600 mile trip.
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