I'm squirting
 

I drove over to DIYAutotune this morning. Had a coolant hard line pop loose en route, and rolled in overheating. Jerry helped me fix the hose and refill the radiator, then we got the MS going. Once we removed my ignition timing piggyback, it was as simple as plug the MS in, start the car, and adjust timing. DIYAutotune MSPNP is in and working. :bigtu:
Jerry did a little bit of road tuning with me. It's not perfect, but certainly drivable until we get a real tuning session in. Fingers crossed for time at the load dyno this week, so we can see results!

Observations for the day:
* The MS doesn't like a timing piggyback intercepting the CAS signal.
* The MS hooked up and ran the car immediately, just like advertised.
* Intake temps from the stock greddy aircleaner position are HOT. Let's just say I'd give y8s a run for his money on AIT.
* Launch control should be triggered by a switch, not the clutch

going to tune the spark while you're on a load dyno? I'm considering doing that in a few weeks.

Congrats. Log your progress. It will be good for every to see what effect your changes have on all the parameters. Ya know you can use a socket on those hose clamps instead of the screwdriver on your leather man. :gay:

8mm ;)

Or on some of the smaller clamps, I've found a 1/4" works too. Depends on who made the clamps..... <G>

Dave,

It wasn't a clamp that came loose.

The hard pipe that runs rearward to the heater core (marked in red) seperated from its fitting on the block (marked in blue). Is that what's called the mixing manifold? The hard pipe moved back a few MM, we just shoved it back forward so it could seat itself again. But I doubt that it's permanately secured.

I plan to keep everyone apprised of my progress, which looks like it will move along quickly. I need to swap in the 440 injectors and install the AIT sensor so I can remove the AFM.


Yes. A spot may have opened up that I can sneak in and use this week. It's going to be a real tuning session with a professional tuner.

drinking and wrenching :nono:
Curious to see how different the MS maps are from car to car given Brain vs. Al. Dialing in fuel is easy compared to spark... especially street tuning.

is it not bolted onto the manifold studs?

No, the bracket didn't line up after going greddy. It was fine for 8K miles before today.

My fuel map is bound to be extremely different than others, as I elected the MAPDADDY 4 bar w/ baro correction sensor. The fuel maps should scale, but may not. As far as timing goes, I have Jerry's base NA map and y8s's hydra map to start from, we'll see where it goes.

You have to modify it to fit. Somewhere on 1 5 p s i . com there is a greddy install that shows what needs to be done. Basically just grind it down until it fits between the runners. Easy easy.

Fuck. Well I don't want to take the mani off again. I'll figure something out.

I've had mine off a couple of times now and I can get it off and back on in about 2 hours. I have fat stubby fingers, and Iam a Canadian :)

just gotta cut/grind the corners off it to a point.

You need remove only one bolt on the manifold. You don't want it under the manifold.

Please explain.

Pretty tough to get in there with anything that'll trim the bracket though. I can barely get a wrench in there with the manifold installed.

yeah that's what I was thinking. I have too many other things to get done in the next few days/weeks. Something with worm clamps and safety wire is going to have to work, at least for now.

Safety Wire = $15/lb
Worm Clamps = $0.99/ea
Evacuating all the coolant in your engine while on the dyno = priceless

:)

I'm sure you'll be fine.

The bracket goes under the nut, on top of the manifold. Others that have put it under the manifold(with the gasket) shall remain nameless.

Oh, I'm with ya. When you wrote "over" the manifold I read that like over the top of the mani. You mean outside of the mani. Yeah, I get that. But none of it lined up right when I put the mani on the head.

I'll figure something out. Gotta also install the injectors, remove the BEGi FMU, change the oil, flush the radiator, install the AIT sensor bung, devise a new intake, rework my hot side charge pipes to clear the a/c pulley better, do the 1.8 brake swap, ship parts from the other car, work, eat, sleep, drink, etc etc etc...

:rofl: yeah listen to older guy. I am glad you finally have a cool engine management solution. Besides it is the eating and sleeping that is holding you back dude. ;)

So Ben, where are you planning on mounting the knock sensor? or have you already and care to share a pic?

I just ordered my Knocksense from the link you provided as well as the MOSFET to do the EBC mod.

I recommend mounting the knock sensor near or at the FM stock location at the motor mount boss. Most recommendations are below crank centerline and away from the font of the engine (pulleys/bearing noise). I've hand mine mounted in four different locations and the noise was definitely worst at the front and top part of the engine. It's now in a motor mount boss and provides good feedback.

mounted mine in the spot recommended by FM, with copious amounts of JBweld...

http://www.asbi52.dsl.pipex.com/supe...r/DSC01600.jpg

Yeah, it's the same Bosch sensor that FM sells. No reason not to bolt it into the motor mount.

No, I have NOT installed it yet. One thing at a time.

they mention a "special" bolt...whatcha planing on using? trying to get things in order myself.

Day 2
 

Day 2

Today I removed the fuel band aid (BEGi FMU), installed 440 cc/min RC Eng injectors, and removed the AFM.

AFM removal is as easy as described in the instructions.

step 1: remove AFM
step 2: install AIT bung/sensor near throttle body or in intake mani
step 3: run 2 wires to the AFM harness
step 4: open megatune, select "no afm"
step 5: turn key and drive

The car runs better today than it did yesterday. And I didn't have Jerry to help me today!

No, nothing special. Easiest thing looks like a stud and 2 nuts. Look at a pic of the FM mount and read their installation instructions. Nothing to it.

Anything special to installing the RC 440s? I think that's my next step. Did you just change req fuel, or did you have to re-tune?

-Mike

I'm not tuned at all. Just lowered req fuel and drove off. Car drives fine, not perfect, but certainly well enough, especially considering it is completely untuned.

Full tuning on load dyno is coming.

this look right to you?

https://www.miataturbo.net/braineack...nockwiring.jpg

Yes. The CLT wire isn't necessary.

I take that back. I assume that the CLT is just 0-5v, w voltage increasing with knock. I'll use it to trigger a relay and power the MIL wire at the ECU. That will light the CEL w/ knock events, just like the Hydra.

Ben

I'm just going to use it to log the events. Although, that's an interesting idea as well...

MegaLogViewer already will log knock. The CLT is really for a 3rd party logger *

*from my limited experience

Excellent.

mmmm....I'll read up on it some more, but from the KnocksenseMS instructions, it says wire it into the MS CLT so when datalogging events the CLT will make a sharp downward spike...but when I look at MLV there is a datapoint for knock, so just pin 5 out should suffice :confused:

....however, I already have an LED on my steering column from a previous "alarm" when we picked up the car....so I'll wire that LED so it'll flash when knock is detected, without anything special needed in my part.

Oh, an observation from yesterday I forgot to mention:
My 60 mph cruise EGT reads ~100-150 F less now than when on the stock ecu. AFRs in the 14-15 range.

So...the stock ECU runs a bit leaner in cruise, perhaps.

my guess is the timing...I was always seeing 14.7-15:1 cruise on the stock ecu.

The timing is advanced for max power on pump 93, even at cruise. That would certainly lower EGTs a bit....

+1 what FoundSoul said. AFRs are similar as the MS is shooting for 14.7:1 just like the stocker. The car is definately poppier with the extra timing and without the AFM choking the intake.

That's post 2200!

MS Day 3
 

Reworked the hot side charge pipes a bit to fit an airfilter straight off the turbo easily. Pulled out that friggin coolant hard line that popped out on me the other day and trimmed its bracket down so that it fits with the greddy mani. Had to remove width and height from the bracket and elongate the hole. PITA, but it's done and secured. Won't pop loose again.

I played with megalogviewer. AWESOME PROGRAM! Screw DLL. Made a few tweaks here n there. Car runs well, though cruise is still rich. Can't wait until tomorrow when it gets tuned up!

Leaving for the dyno now. :x:

Can't wait to hear the results.

Stupid question about MS: will using it standalone make the diagnostic box useless, or is it still functional? Would seem that it should still be functional, but who knows whether the ECU had its little hand in the operations...

Diag. box is only good for a few things, what would you still need it for? You can still jump the fuel pump, that's about all you might need.


Ben: "break a rod" (i guess that's what they'd say....)

I was thinking for setting the timing and mechanical idle, as well as jumping the fans. I'm only really concerned about the timing and idle.

You dont need to jump anything to set the timing/idle...infact you don't even need to rotate the CAS. Just tell MS to be a fixed 10deg...then change the crank angle value untill you see 10°.

You should still be able to ground the fans and fuel pump circuits.

+1

The only time you'd need to move the CAS is if the trigger angle needed to set base timing properly falls between 20 and 50 degrees.... you can't use a 20-50 degree trigger angle as it will limit your maximum advance. So IF you fall in this range, set your trigger angle outside of this range and adjust base timing using the CAS, or at least get it close and then fine tune with MegaTune.

Generally with the MSPNP units most cars are falling in the 53-63 trigger angle range.

BTW-- I'm leaving for the dyno now too...

So does that mean your car has a Turbo on it now?

not necessary, but unless you hook it up when you do get knock all that you'll see in the log is how many degrees retard MS as done, you won't actually be able to see the spikes.

The spikes are superimposed onto the CLT line. An added benifit is the spikes are negative so your coolant suddenly becomes much colder, so MS injects more fuel for a brief moment. It's a beneficial side effect IMO

Not yet-- but I want one now :).

That meant I was leaving to go help Ben dial his car in. I'm sitting in the passenger seat, on the dyno, right now. We've tuned to 11psi, 214.5 wtq and 218whp so far. We're about to try and turn up the boost a bit...

Nicely done guys! I bet he's really "squirting" now!

ahhhh...i need more dyno, great tease.

Must get my squirt finished so I can start tuning...

241 whp 230 wtq so far, working on boost control issue, running to only 6500 rpm. boost is falling, and hp is still gaining hard @ 6500 where we end the run. dynapack dyno, 90 deg ambient

sounds like it's MS EBC time.

Actually... we started using that a while ago, right after I posted the MBC numbers. Oh... did I fail to mention that the MSPNP comes complete with electronic boost control built in ready to rock? Guess I wanted a live test first :bigtu:

It's a bit different using it without a TPS, reduces your table to 1x8 essentially, but it still works great actually. It's simple, but very effective. We just dialed it in in open loop.

I'll let Ben share his final numbers... I can't spill all his joy ;).

We're about to go for a test drive! :skid: