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Old 11-29-2012, 08:36 AM   #141
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This whole thread simply means 1 thing was and is right and yall are big ole ****** when it comes to timming. I had a map like bens from the outset and always had good economy in criuse and throttle response.
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Old 11-29-2012, 08:49 AM   #142
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and just like that, he comes outa the woodwork
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Old 11-29-2012, 10:18 AM   #143
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Joe,
While you're working on timing... shouldn't you be working on INJECTOR timing? There are likely both efficiency and smoothness benefits.

The MS3 can do that too.

Here's mine:



I created a rough ignition diagram for the 2001 with VVT to generate it.



The collective googles suggest that you want the squirt to END just before the intake valve opens. Depending on where your intake cam is opening (this information is available various places like SOLOMIATA if you want to do it yourself and calculate the squirt durations in terms of RPM and cam angle.
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Old 11-29-2012, 10:56 AM   #144
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...and us non-native VVT guys get to compensate for cam angle with injector timing. Fun!!!
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Old 11-29-2012, 12:30 PM   #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VanMSM View Post
This guy claims 38mpg+ at cruise using a NBO2 (14.7AFR) primarily by tuning timing:
People who make such claims without posting any supporting data are the precise definition of a Troll, regardless of intent.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Oni View Post
Joe could u post up your current Spark map and AFR table?.
Bear in mind that I recently made some significant changes to my AFR Targets table, which have not yet had time to be fully integrated into the VE table. Also, I think a went a bit too low on the MAP threshold for transitioning out of stoich, I may bump that up a few kPa- it's coming in way before WOT.

Actually, now that I think about it I may just leave it like this and let it richen the VE table slightly, then once I'm done with VE Autotune, change it back to 14.7 across the board and use TPS > 90 as the switchpoint out of closed-loop. That way below 90% TPS it'll seek stoich, but > 90% it'll go open-loop and be slightly rich.

Ok. Here's the corrected AFR:


(note that because the AEM UEGO is a piece of ****, and I'm too lazy to come up with a custom calibration for it, the ACTUAL AFR which results is about 0.6 leaner than the target at stoich. Thus, 15.3 = 14.7. My narrowband sensor confirms this, and I assume this miscalibration to be more-or-less linear.)


VE:





and Spark:




Again, these are all works in progress, not finished product.





Quote:
Originally Posted by magnamx-5 View Post
This whole thread simply means 1 thing was and is right and yall are big ole ****** when it comes to timming. I had a map like bens from the outset and always had good economy in criuse and throttle response.
I just proved that Ben's spark map is overly conservative, you retarded *****.

(Why the hell don't I have my own smiley on this forum?)



Quote:
Originally Posted by y8s View Post
Joe,
While you're working on timing... shouldn't you be working on INJECTOR timing? There are likely both efficiency and smoothness benefits.
Injector timing is pretty low on my list of things to do, given how hard it is to actually measure the effects of.

Here's what I'm running at the moment (end of squirt):




Looks a lot like yours, actually.
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Let's discuss spark advance-ve.gif   Let's discuss spark advance-spark.gif   Let's discuss spark advance-injtime.gif   Let's discuss spark advance-afr.gif  

Last edited by Joe Perez; 11-29-2012 at 06:04 PM. Reason: I had the dumb.
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Old 11-29-2012, 03:38 PM   #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
(Why the hell don't I have my own smiley on this forum?)
?

My vote. lol
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Old 11-29-2012, 04:13 PM   #147
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Joe you plan on running 11.9 afr on NA motor?
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Old 11-29-2012, 04:15 PM   #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by triple88a View Post
Joe you plan on running 11.9 afr on NA motor?
I dont think so. If I'm reading what he wrote right he only runs 0.6 richer than commanded afr in closed loop.
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Old 11-29-2012, 04:19 PM   #149
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I'm sure he would hit 100kpa before wot. If he plans on keeping the open loop closed loop separation TPS activated it will cause problems since the ECU will try to go for 12.5 which based on his wideband calibration is 11.9afr.
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Old 11-29-2012, 04:19 PM   #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by triple88a View Post
Joe you plan on running 11.9 afr on NA motor?
Haha.

Good point. I think I had my brain installed backwards when I poked those twelves in, and I never gave it another thought.

No, I wasn't planning to run 11.9, I just had the dumb. Thanks for catching that.
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Old 11-29-2012, 04:31 PM   #151
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joe's would be more like this:

or
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Old 11-29-2012, 04:57 PM   #152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
joe's would be more like this:
How about a nuclear plant cooling tower that turns into a mushroom cloud?

Is this now the "vote for Joe's smiley" thread?
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Old 11-29-2012, 05:36 PM   #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler View Post
...and us non-native VVT guys get to compensate for cam angle with injector timing. Fun!!!
non-native as in VVTooner?

yes the ms3 feature that automatically adjusts inj timing with cam angle was a nice adder.
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Old 11-30-2012, 04:30 AM   #154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by y8s View Post
non-native as in VVTooner?

yes the ms3 feature that automatically adjusts inj timing with cam angle was a nice adder.
Did no know about that.... very cool.
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Old 12-03-2012, 01:12 PM   #155
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Joe,

If you have the old AEM UEGO with out any serial output the afr offset may not be linear. The one I use has a calibration that looks like this (blue line):



The calibration came as part of the installation documents.
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Old 12-03-2012, 02:13 PM   #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboRoach View Post
If you have the old AEM UEGO with out any serial output the afr offset may not be linear. The one I use has a calibration that looks like this (blue line):
Are you referring to the 30-2301, which is a rectangular box with no display, commonly referred to as "AEM Non-Linear"?



Mine is the gauge style, 30-4100, which the manual claims has a linear output from 0v = 10:1 to 5v = 20:1 when in mode P0 (default). Here is the chart printed in the manual:



It is most definitely supposed to be linear, it just sucks.
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Old 12-03-2012, 02:24 PM   #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
Are you referring to the 30-2301, which is a rectangular box with no display, commonly referred to as "AEM Non-Linear"?
That's the one. I had to have the adaptronic guys add a calibration for it that's why I brought it up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
Mine is the gauge style, 30-4100, which the manual claims has a linear output from 0v = 10:1 to 5v = 20:1 when in mode P0 (default). Here is the chart printed in the manual:

It is most definitely supposed to be linear, it just sucks.
Got it, avoid AEM widebands.
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Old 12-03-2012, 02:31 PM   #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VanMSM View Post
This guy claims 38mpg+ at cruise using a NBO2 (14.7AFR) primarily by tuning timing: Hydra, 38mpg+, power and smoothness like no other

Unfortunately he doesn't really discuss his methodology or even provide the resulting timing map.
Threads like that frustrate the **** out of me. My car runs like a bag of *** and has never recorded better than 25mpg on an all-highway tank. And he's in there claiming those MPGs, and then Keith jumps in on it as well? Goddamnit. Flyin' Miata tuned my car dammit, why can't i get awesome empeegees as well?
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Old 12-03-2012, 02:32 PM   #159
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It may well be that the newer ones suck less, I honestly don't know.

Incidentally, you mentioned "the old AEM UEGO with out any serial output" previously. Looking through AEM's current offerings, it does not appear that any of their wideband systems offer a serial output, except for the Wi-Fi and OLED versions, and those are only via USB. Am I missing something?
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Old 12-03-2012, 03:00 PM   #160
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Whatever the cheap one with the gauge is should. AEM Net or something like that. Only works with other aem products. Should be the blue wire on the gauge as the serial data line.
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