Lost on getting my car started. 1.6 M45 w/ MS
 

Ok, I am pretty much lost on where to go from this point in trying to get my car started. It is a fresh rebuild and I have added a few parts, including the MS, in the rebuild process. Looking to get your guys help on getting it going. I have attached my currently MSQ file and the "dump" file.

Last night I tried starting the car for the 1st time with no success. First I disconnected the fuel pump relay and cranked her over a few times until it built oil pressure, worked perfectly. Then I tried to start her but no luck. Didn't want to keep going due to IAT temp reading. Read somewhere else that readings like that could make more fuel go in and flood the motor.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Just trying to get the car going so I can break in the rings and get it to the dyno.

Whats on the car:

• MS-1 built by Brain with 10g_hr
• 1.6 with M45
• GM IAT sensor (deleted AFM)
• 460cc RX-7 Injectors
• Toyota COP kit
• AEM UEGO wideband

What I have done to the ECU so far:

• Downloaded the deleted AFM base map for the 90-93. Used it as my starting point
• Changed the REQ fuel setting for the larger injectors.
• Adjusted cranking and after enrichment for larger injectors. Calculated by 230/460 factor.
• Changed settings for wideband per guide.
• Adjusted dwell times for COP.
• Change timing setting to fixed in preparation for starting the car.

What I think are problems:

• Intake air temperature is reading -40 degrees. I currently have the sensor wired to the shielded red wire and the black wire. Have changed it a few times because I cannot figure out what's correct, conflicting information. I have already cut off the AFM connector so Pin #'s don't help me. Wire colors correct?
• Each time I have loaded the base map I get a prompt telling me that there were some errors/warnings loading the map. I think there is a different in the 10g_hr maps and the ones available for download. Is this an issue?
• Have I messed up anywhere else? Correct firmware on there?

IAT should NOT be connected to the shielded red wire, which is the airflow signal wire, not the air temp signal wire.

Would you happen to know what 2 color wires I need to connect to are?

Also, I have read in the Megatune manual about calibrating the sensors but my version of Megatune and Tunerstudio do not have those options in the Tools menu. Is that a feature of the full paid version? Could that be a problem for me as well? Thanks.

comradefks
change your injector dead time to .75 and throw fuel table ve at 59 across the map under 100kpa

Ok changed the settings as instructed.

Think I will post an image on here with the AFM wiring diagram to see if we can nail down the wire colors.

Does having the IAT sensor affect starting the car significantly? I know I need to get it fixed obviously but would it reading incorrectly make the car not start?

Also, are the calibration sensor options only available in the full paid version of Tunerstudio or Megatune? Thanks.

by default yes it will affect the starting and running of the car.

Ok found this diagram. Look at page 4 at grid 7-C for the airflow meter. What color wires to I need to use?

http://neomiata.com/garage/Wiring%20...20Diagrams.pdf

Also, in the "Sensor Calibration" part of this guide, it says to choose the Calibrate Thermister Tables in the Tools menu. When I open Tools in Megatune, I don't have the option. Do I have the wrong version of the software?

DIYPNP MegaSquirt installation for the Mazda Miata

http://tunerstudio.com/index.php/tuner-studio
download and install tunerstudio

who'd you buy this unit from?

I have tried Tunerstudio as well, doesn't have the sensor calibration menus either.

I bought the ECU from another board member about 3-4 months ago.

FS thread: https://www.miataturbo.net/miata-par...-iat-na-65034/

My 1st version question thread: https://www.miataturbo.net/megasquir...-i-have-65608/

Also, just checked and I have the latest version of Tunerstudio downloaded. Version 2.0.5.

Isolated and boxed the wires I think I should be using for the IAT. Does this seem correct? Thanks.

no.

why does that make sense for the AIT wires? That's clearly the fuel pump ground.

you need to run the AIT into the pictured:

http://lh6.ggpht.com/-8EHYgIV6L4M/T1...jpg?imgmax=912

ignore the red line, focus on the two wires in the picture; install there.


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for your fuel pump, looks like I made this years ago and you'll have to jump f/p and gnd in the diagnositics box for fuel, for now.

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for you ait/clt calibrations, they are burned into the firmware of the MSI, you cannot change them on the fly like a ms2 like others are suggesting. You need the proper .inc files for your project, however, in order for TS to output the correct values on you laptop.

download these three into your project folder's "inc" folder: Index of /MS/msq/Therm Files/16L_standalone

I have cut off the AFM connector you have shown in the picture, long story but it's gone. I need to know what color wires connect to pin1 and pin6 in that image from the factory harness side.

for the fuel pump, is that a temporary solution until I get a professional dyno tune or will I need to modify something in the long run?

for ait/clt, I will try and download the .inc files tonight when I get home.

Also, looking at the wiring diagram in post#12, would the ait sensor be RED-GRN and BLK-LT GRN?

correct.

blk/lt green is always the sensor ground. red/grn is the ait input to the ECU.


you can go ahead and tie the two wires you circled to activate the fuel pump, just note it will run as long as the key is ON.

Got it, thank you.

Does running the fuel pump this way have negative affects in the long run by "burning it out"? Don't really know the proper terms for it but basically the fuel pump will run more of the time than necessary so it's putting "miles" on it. I don't think I will have much of an issue with that, just wanted to get it straight.

What is that solution for the fuel pump item currently?

it's just not safe practice if you crash.

you'd run a wire from pin 37 on the db37 to 2O on the harness. then jump that in the AFM connector to fuel pump relay wire. (the red line in that picture I posted)

that will allow the MS to activate the fuel pump.

Ok, I will jump the wires for now but look into making those changes prior to taking the car on track. Understand the safety concern with having the fuel pump always running.

it would be R (2O) to LG (Circuit Opening Relay).

Ok, update from this evening.

Got the AIT sensor wired correctly, connected the fuel pump relay wires (Runs when in On position) and downloaded the provided .inc files. AIT sensor is reading correctly now in Tunerstudio.

Since I got straightened out, I tried starting the car again. No luck. Got the car to crank over nicely and sputter trying to start but could not keep going. Was following the directions per various sources where you are trying to set the timing.

Ended up messing around with the timing trigger angle, CAS position, cranking and after enrichment pulse widths. Seemed to be getting closer but no cigar. Checked the spark plugs after and all had a little oil on them and carbon on the tip. Checked down into the combustion chamber and did not see any flooded cylinders.

I have attached my most current .msq file. Is my issue most likely a setting(s) in Tunerstudio or something with the installation of parts? Should I look over all of the grounding points I used? I have heard that mentioned as being highly important. Thanks.

what size injectors do you have right now installed and what is the req_fuel set to in your map?

I have 460cc RX-7 injectors and I believe the REQ_Fuel calculated out at 7.0. I used 12.7 AFR as advised in the Megasquirt manual.

Am I way off here?

I am also wondering if I am going about starting the car and setting the timing correctly.

I would set the fixed angle to +10 degrees, and leave the rest of the settings alone. Then messed with the CAS angle a bit to see what kind of difference what would make. Then adjust the triggle angle up or down to see what difference that made. No starting in any of those situations.

Is this something where my timing is off? Or does it sound like I am short on fuel? or spark?

EDIT: Just noticed that the MS manual says to start the engine, THEN change the fixed angle from -10 to 10 degrees. I did that before trying to start the engine.

Would that make the car start or not start? Thanks.

fueling most liekly.

what your cranking pulsewidth table look like?

Will have to get back to you on this one. Don't have my laptop with me at work today. I know initially I reduced it by a factor of (230/460) or multiply by .5 & added 1ms back in based on whatever guide I was reading at the time. Then last night, I tried increasing it by .4 or .5 at a time in each cell. Did that maybe twice. Seems to help a bit to keep sputtering for a second but would still die out.

Also tried the same strategy with the after enrichment pulsewidths.

Here are a few of the tables. Anything obvious that needs to be changed in these? thanks.

Tried starting the car again tonight with no success. Basically the same as yesterday. Took this video to give you guys an idea of what it sounds like and what it's doing.

Miata Engine Start Attempt - YouTube

We got a spark tester and verified that all the coils are sparking. Also checked by listening to the injectors and all seem to be opening.

Here was a thought though, could I not be getting a good fire from the spark plug? They are the NGK 7 temp plugs, gapped to .040" as they come out of the box.

Any ideas guys?? I would like to get the car started ASAP and am running out of troubleshooting ideas. Would it help for me to do a datalog during cranking and upload it here?

Is the information I have provided helpful? Any issues that are plain to see in the msq? Thanks.

fueling. does it run with throttle open?

Have not tried jamming the throttle open while cranking it over.

Would fueling mean working on the cranking/prime table to get more fuel in or the VE table? Basically not getting enough fuel? I have been checking the cylinders after each time at it and they are not flooded yet.

not during, after cranking. the car technically starts, it just wont stay running.

which makes me think your ve fuel table, ASE table, and/or warmup tables are messed up.

i dont think you have enough fuel after it catches.

Ok, I will try to keep upping the values in those tables and see if I can keep the car running. Will report back.

Do you think my spark plug gap is too large, .040", and might be causing an issue as well? Just want to check it off the list if not applicable.

doubtful on spark gap.
Anytime you do any changing or tuning you always data log and always make a backup of your current tune.

Understood, definitely new territory for me. Not something I like very much up to this point. Just want to get it running and take it to a pro.

Hopefully I can get it to stay on so far. Glad that nobody has come back large red flags telling I should stop breaking things with such terrible settings :D

I was gonna mention when you start your car and turns over but dies, try holding open the accelerator a tad to see if giving it a tad more air will keep the engine alive.

Will try. Is that also something I could adjust on TS? I have the TPS unplugged right now and the calibration doesn't work to my knowledge. Also won't let me input 255 for start/stop positions like detailed on boostedmiata.

What is your fuel table and why do you have 7.0 for req fuel?
if your tps isn't the variable type, don't use it.

Cranking, ASE and VE Table 1 shown in images in post #27. Req_fuel calculated at 7.0 for the RX-7 460cc injectors @ 12.7 AFR.

TPS is stock, so not variable, and unplugged currently.

using e85 or 93 aki?
93 aki change req fuel to 6.2 since you are using 460cc injectors

Gas is 91. Best out of the pump here in CA.

Quick datalog I just did. Tweaking things as I'm posted this.

Also noticed that on my TS gauge display, the AFR gauge doesn't move when trying to start the car and the Duty Cycle 1 gauge registers very low numbers, less than 10%. Is that normal/OK during start up??

don't use lambda sensor output while trying to get the car started.
Go by pulsewidth, smell and hearing and datalogging.

map sensor is connected to where?

MAP is manifold pressure tube running to the MS correct? That is connected at the inlet to the intake manifold. Reads around 80 to 100 kPa usually.

What do you mean by lamba sensor output? Is that the O2 readings? Also, when you say pulse width, do you mean on the gauge readout or in the tables? If tables, which pulse widths? Thanks.

Also, tried giving it some throttle while cranking and it didn't seem to really make a difference.

I was looking at your datalog and notice accell enrichments going on when you were under cranking, disable AE by putting a huge number in map threshold, like 1000 or 3000 instead of the 50 in there. You don't want it adding fuel like its doing when your under cranking

when is it reading around 80-100kpa?

ITS ALIVE!!! but not from working with the msq I have been using.

Ok, so I tried messing around the the msq that has been discussed in this thread some more last night and was not getting anywhere. Got really frustrated so I loaded the 1st map on the page below.

Megatune Files - Miata Turbo FAQ

Started right up. Did some quick fine tuning on the ASE table and VE 1 to get it to run a little smoother and display richer AFR readings. I didn't care if it was running well, just didn't want to damage anything. Anyways, ended up being able to take it out and follow the FM guide to breaking in the rings.

Did run into a couple issues though. On the way back it was running really hot so I shut it down. Found out that the fan wasn't coming on. I have a reroute and have removed the front water neck/thermoswitch. Thought I setup the MS to have the fan come on at 200F but no go. Is there a walkthrough on how to set up the fan operation? I only have the driver's side fan hooked up at this point. Also, after a while the wideband gauge would stop displaying readings. If I took the key out and reset, it would start up again. Any ideas why?

And in the long run I need to get these things working prior to tuning,

-AFR readings on TS
-Tach in gauge cluster
-Water temp gauge in gauge cluster
-Interior lights. I removed the dimmer switch, is there an override?

gotta check what output you have it on in your current map, make sure it matches your physical circuit/wiring.

Any chance you can tell from looking at a picture of the harness wiring?

Also, I set up the fan control per your directions in this thread below

https://www.miataturbo.net/megasquir...f-65734/page2/

Didn't get to the 2nd page though where those settings changed and it worked for the OP. Might make those changes and see what happens.

Another item, currently I have the AEM UEGO wideband wired to the ECU from the 0-5 Volt Output from the wideband connecting to the RED-BLUE wire in the OEM harness.

The AFR gauge is reading values, don't know how accurate yet, but TS is not registering anything. Is this a setting that I need to change or have I wired something incorrectly? Thanks.

Got the fan working this morning. Followed the directions on the 2nd page of the thread I posted before. Change the X2 function to fan control and it worked. Just have to input what ever temps you want the fan turning on and off at.

Ok, down to 3 items I would like to figure out. Any help would be greatly appreciated. They are in order of importance.

AFR not reading on TS - I am getting AFR readings on my AEM UEGO gauge but not in Tunerstudio. Have the 0-5 Volt output from the AEM gauge wired to the red/blue wire in the OEM harness. Is my connection just poor or am I wired the wrong way?

Tach not working - Switched to COP's so I lost the tach signal. Tried the 1k resistor from IG- to B+ in the daignostic port today and didn't work. Any other options for this?

Interior lights not illuminating - My cluster and all my gauges don't light up. The cluster is wired per OEM, the gauges are connected to the red/black wire at the hazards switch. I got rid of the dimmer switch for interior lights, without it does it default to off? If so, how do I fix that?

Thanks guys!

Anybody have ideas for the AFR reading and/or the tach signal?

https://www.miataturbo.net/megasquir...my-tach-18670/

Found this thread on the tach signal not worked. Does the MS1 come with the tacho output pin set to X2 (JS0) standard or is that not typical? Thinking of checking that in conjunction with the resistor mod.

Does anyone have suggestions on how to get the MS to read the AFR output? I have it connected to the AEM wiring instructions to the OEM O2 wire but the MS still doesn't recognize it?

Problem TS settings? Wiring? Harness?

So I kind of let this go for a while so I could fix other issues that came up but now I'm trying to figure out how to get my tach working.

I have run the car with stock coils and Toyota COP's with the MS1 ECU. Neither get's a tach signal on my cluster. I have tried the resister trick in the diagnostic port, nothing.

Is there some way to diagnosis this? Is it something with the ECU that could be getting in the way? Thanks.

are you cops 3 or 4 pins?

4 pin