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Old 06-01-2006, 08:35 PM   #1
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Default mS on 2004

Hey guys, Im currently building my MS kit V.3 board.

Im going to be using MS to run mu DIY turbo system. Turbo install planned for next summer.

Im just wondering if anyone has gotten MS running on a 01+ car yet? How different are the 99-00 cars from the 01+ will I be able to follow most of the instructions postd on this site or am I going to have to go this alone?
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Old 06-01-2006, 09:01 PM   #2
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The NB's have a returnless/dead head fuel system. Also they have a crankshaft position sensor that you would probably want to use rather than the camshaft one.

Definately keep us posted, it would be good for someone to be the guinea pig!

Edit: Just a couple of extra things, the NB has an IAT sensor (and it's not built into the MAF unit) so it would be interesting to see if you can get that working to save fitting a GM one. I'm not too familiar with the ignition on the NB though, I'm still saving up for mine!

Last edited by timk; 06-01-2006 at 10:36 PM.
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Old 06-02-2006, 10:58 AM   #3
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I'm also building a V3 for my 99. So, we will see how it goes.

I don't think any NB's have been squirted yet.

Last edited by kingofl337; 06-02-2006 at 11:52 AM.
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Old 06-02-2006, 04:42 PM   #4
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Aussie driver has a 99 engine in his 92, but I believe he is using the 92 ignitor and coils. So his CAS signals count as an MS'd NB, but not spark.
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Old 06-02-2006, 09:17 PM   #5
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I just want to get fuel going then move to spark.

Whats the main reason for running spark, is it just to be able to pull timing under boost?
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Old 06-03-2006, 01:34 AM   #6
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Actually aussie is using a 1.6 CAS too.

Spark control is essential with FI, but even with NA you can make more power with spark tuning.
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Old 06-06-2006, 04:42 PM   #7
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MAzda isn't really creative. So, I'm pretty sure the 99 cas works the same as the 89+


Quote:
Whats the main reason for running spark, is it just to be able to pull timing under boost
Spark control is nice so you can pull it back under boost and advance it under vacume. It can help lessen the off boost lag. It will save your motor from things that are trying it kill it. (KNOCK)

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Old 06-07-2006, 12:52 AM   #8
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I don't think any NB has a cam angle sensor, but it has a plug where the cam angle sensor would be that can be easily removed and one fitted.
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Old 06-07-2006, 03:26 AM   #9
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The cam sensor is magnetic and located on the front of the motor on the valve cover. It has a crank sensor on the flywheel.

Together the output looks like the 89+ CAS.
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Old 06-07-2006, 05:50 AM   #10
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My apologies, it helps when you look in the right place!

Do you have a circuit to combine the two signals and use it with MegaSquirt?
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Old 06-07-2006, 08:34 AM   #11
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The two signals are sent to the ECU independantly, has are the signals from the 89+ CAS. If it stops raining for 2 days I'll be able to check things out in greater detail.
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Old 06-11-2006, 04:49 PM   #12
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Here's anotherone looking into playing with MS on a 03 the comming winter.
I've just started to plow through all the available information and it looks almost easy.

The only problem I see is to figure out what sensors to use (is the OEM sensors on 01+ enough for Fuel&Spark?).

My current (uninformed) plan for the completly stock 03 is:
* Use MS for fuel first (hopefully as a completly reversible parallel/piggy installation)
* Wideband for tuning (MPG at least)
* Spark (who knows how the coil on plugs behave?)
* And at the end start to look into IRTB's

The plan is to go as stealt as possible and keep the OEM ECU in the dark about what's going on (Parallel/Piggy install). I have plenty of time to get all the information I need and I might be lucky to take advantage of others success stories
If the installation can be made without adding extra sensors/triggerwheels the risk of failure is so much lower (and the MS can be added/removed easilly without trace).

Have anyone seen any information about what signals the coil-on-plugs need?
Whats would be needed to enable MS-II to trigger them?

Last edited by NiklasFalk; 06-12-2006 at 07:43 AM.
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Old 06-13-2006, 08:39 AM   #13
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I have ordered an MS for my '02, 1.8lt VVT 6-speed. Here's the scoop:

1) You can't use the cam angle sensor on this engine. The VVT system continiously varies the intake valve phase so no luck getting a reliable reading. To that end, I bought a cam angle sensor from a 1.8 94-97 NA (magnetic type), which fits on the exhaust camshaft, plug and play. This give both a generic firing event as well as cylinder selection (ie which set of cylinder plugs to ignite). You might as well forget the idea of controlling the VVT with the MS; this VVT system is just too complicated to control, leave it up to the stock ECU.

2) The fuel system is returnless; fuel pressure in the fuel system can be controlled by altering the voltage to the fuel pump (unsafe) or by adding an external FPR.

3) The alternator is controlled by the ECU, so forget having a fully standalone setup unless you swap your alternator with one from a NA miata.

The MS should be here any day now, along with an LM-1 wideband. I'll keep you posted on how it goes.

Jim

Last edited by Reverant; 04-06-2007 at 06:24 AM.
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Old 06-13-2006, 02:33 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reverant
The MS should be here any day now, along with an LM-1 wideband. I'll keep you posted on how it goes.
Will the added CAS and the LM-1 be your only added sensors to run Fuel (leaving everything else to the EM ECU)?
Have you thought about spark (and figured out what the coils want)?
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Old 06-14-2006, 03:31 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NiklasFalk
Will the added CAS and the LM-1 be your only added sensors to run Fuel (leaving everything else to the EM ECU)?
Have you thought about spark (and figured out what the coils want)?
Ideally, yes these will be the only extra sensors, however I do intend to run spark as well. My plan is:

1) Hook up the MS: MAP, lambda, CAS, CTS, ATS, TPS, extra MAP (real time barometric correction). Will NOT connect the injectors and the coils just yet.
2) Run the car for ~1 month, see if everything is running fine, the MS gets stable an realistic readings from all the sensors.
3) If everything runs as intended, continue to step 4. Otherwise, fix the problem(s) first.
4) Reroute the injectors to the MS, tune. Run the car for about ~1 more month. If the car runs "fine", continue with step 5. Otherwise, fix the problem(s) first.
5) Connect the coils. I'll be using the stock 1.8 VVT coils which have the integrate ignitors. I have already bought a second set of coils from a '94 1.8 from eBay just in case (I either fry mine or they plain flat refuse to cooperate), I would hope these don't have the ignitors in them (in which case I will add a set of VB921 ignitors to my MS board.).
6) Tune, tune, tune.
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Old 06-14-2006, 04:26 AM   #16
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Sound like a nice plan well worth following
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Old 06-14-2006, 05:25 AM   #17
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I think if you follow this thread for dwell settings, you should be fairly safe:
http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=166507

As for the CLT and IAT sensors, if you want to share them with the factory ECU (which you do from what I've read) then these instructions might be of use:
http://www.megasquirt.info/v22manual/sharesen.htm

Hope this helps, let us know how it goes!

Cheers,
Tim
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Old 06-14-2006, 01:05 PM   #18
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Yes, I'll prefer sharing the stock sensors if I can, if not, well I'll add a GM set.

Btw, forgot to mention, I have an incar PC installed in the dash, so I can have Megatune up and running all the time, logging and displaying all the sensors, so this is going to help me BIG time! No laptop in the passenger's seat, no codriver required!

Jim
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Old 06-14-2006, 03:14 PM   #19
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Reverant, the CAM sensor is mounted on the front of the timing belt pully. It does not change with the VVT. The fuel pump does not change voltage the pressure is fixed a 50psi. The regulator is in the tank. You just have to adjust your injector CC size based on the rated flow at 43psi vs 50psi. The VVT is not progessive its on or off. All you have to do is setup the shift light output on the MS and it will turn on the VVT at a target RPM.
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Old 06-14-2006, 03:19 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reverant
Btw, forgot to mention, I have an incar PC installed in the dash,
Jim
Pictures? Source?
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