MS build thread
 

Well I decided to dump this here, if its the wrong place let me know.
Goal is to use it standalone completely. I am trying to find the ecu connector but they seem hard to procure now, anyone have a link to places that sell them?

Bought MS1 pcb 1.01 and stim board unassembled kits

http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/7...1711h42m36.png

bunch of stuff

http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/2...1816h08m19.png

stim ready

http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/5...1916h41m39.png

power part setup

I'm amazed you managed to find an unbuilt V1.01 kit. There weren't many of those made and they haven't been sold new for years.

Well if I do find stuff I don't have and want to run on MS1 I guess I could allways update it with a MS2 chip even though its a older board.

Also is the ms3 chip only for the v3.57 board? reason why?

you can run it on a v2.2, v3.0, and v3.57 mainboard.

You mean the MS3 chip can be run on the v2.2\3\3.57 boards?

correct.


v3.0 here:

http://www.boostedmiata.com/gallery2...2/DSC_0111.JPG

so got the connections circuit hookedup going onwards to the next part.

I was thinking about how maf\turbo would work I was thinking that even though you can't see pressure you can still see air flow which of course should take into account the pressure since normlly you won't hit a certain airflow on the maf without FI there will be a peirod where no matter what rpms eventually the airflow will start to rocket up reporting by the maf just need to find that spot and pretty much say starting adding this much fuel, just my idea of how it would work, can't wait to check it out, don't know if MS tuning software will even let me do that. But we will see.

It's easiest to put an MS3 on a V3.0 or V3.57 board as there's a set of hold down holes to protect it from vibration and there's an off the shelf case. Putting a MS3 on a V1.01 or V2.2 would need a custom case and you'd have to come up with some way to hold it in position.

I see on our older Miatas the MAF is part of the fuel circuit, anyone bypassed it in a way that doesn't need to modify the MS? Like an extrernal circuit?

That's easy enough - just splice the MS fuel pump output into the unused MAF wiring, then splice that wire on the MAF to the MAF's fuel pump wire.

so is the fuel pump ecu controlled on the stock ecu as well?
Thanks for the info Matt

http://a.imageshack.us/img802/3305/v...2320h00m10.png

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now to get a variable tps, wire up the fuel pump correctly, and figure out how to pull a trigger signal, lol.

you can run the fuel pump ground across the dash to the fuel pump relay.

http://www.boostedmiata.com/MS/fuel_pump_lead.gif

the green wire on the yellow plug.

Ok so I got abit of a problem. In Megatune I can see the megasquirt, mess with the controls on the stim and watch them move up and down. But trying to connect my Megasquirt to Megatunix or tunerstudio doesn't happen, neither can find it.

Now Megatune won't work with the megasquirt if I chose any other firmware type than B&G v1 orginal.

So far I think it maybe a board problem as the serial cable is correct straight though and I tried megasquirt connected to 3 different boxes with megatunix on them.

AS we can see here

<djandruczyk> 10 0.00000754 megatune.exe IOCTL_SERIAL_SET_RTS Serial0 SUCCESS
<djandruczyk> 11 0.00000754 megatune.exe IOCTL_SERIAL_SET_DTR Serial0 SUCCESS
<djandruczyk> thats NOT CORRECT
<djandruczyk> MS does NOT use flow control
<djandruczyk> MT should not be seting flow control lines
<hentaixp> just reporting my findings thats all
<djandruczyk> MTX does the correct thing:
<djandruczyk> 17020 0.00000838 megatunix.exe IOCTL_SERIAL_CLR_RTS Serial0 SUCCESS
<djandruczyk> 17021 0.00000922 megatunix.exe IOCTL_SERIAL_CLR_DTR Serial0 SUCCESS
<hentaixp> well its making something work
<djandruczyk> you could try editing winserialio.c and setting it to enable the DSR/DTR flow control lines and see if it works, if it doesn it shows a wiring problem on the board
<hentaixp> wait .c
<djandruczyk> odds are theres a bad solder joint or cable that has pins internally tied togethjer

Now I'll get some high rez pictures of the board later, but if anyone else may have an idea let me know, thanks

http://a.imageshack.us/img441/8565/p7245072.jpg

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Just an update I jumped the boot pins on the board and using hyperterminal I am to connect the Megasquirt using 9600 N 1 and none flow control, Able to type in letters and get repsonces.

Figured out the problem, the ECU contained very old firmware that only megatune had by default.

more work
http://a.imageshack.us/img830/1460/v...2806h35m37.png

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I need to find a place to pull 5v from though, not sure if the 470ohm is currently connected correctly to a 5v pin hole

Seems the place I had the 470 wired into is fine after testing with a multimeter.

Anyone thats done the IAT mod take a look at this and verify its wired correctly?
Thanks

http://a.imageshack.us/img718/4374/v...2815h42m48.png

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http://a.imageshack.us/img718/4374/v...2815h42m48.png

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Better view of my setup,

looking at the pic.

bottom leg goes to ground, middle leg goes to idle valve, top leg goes to input from cpu.

you should put a 1n44 diode on the with leg to 12v, banded end on 12v.

you refering to the IAC mod?

Just making sure

si. on the middle leg is what i meant to say about the diode. i assume the tip120 on the case is the driver correct?

Its a NTE261 they said its a direct replacment\compatible to the TIP120

you sure that diode isn't for pcb v3 layout?

pcb v1.01 has the diode D9 as a 1n4001 connect to that leg already on installed.

aiight, it's just for extra flyback protection.

good to hear

http://a.imageshack.us/img689/9253/v...0209h53m41.png

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only 20 more to go!

Does the fuel pump get activated by the 12v output from the ecu?

no, on a 1.6L car what you should do is build a high side driver circuit.

http://www.diyautotune.com/diypnp/images/vtec_lg.gif

Use one of the TIP125s that you don't use (the ones with MICA q12 and q9 or whatever they are).

Basically you'll want to take the FP output (banded end of d4) through the 220ohm resistor to the TIP125, you skip the part of the circuit prior to that because you are using Q2/Q19 for this.

get the 12v source from s12c or s12 or banded end of d9.

then the vtec_out should go to 1C on your harness. YOU MUST REMOVE THE ST_SIG FUSE UNDER THE HOOD.

LAMENT TERMS: when the MS grounds the fuel pump, you are instead sending 12v out to 1C, which back-feeds the fuel pump relay and activates the circuit. you must remove the fuse or you will ruin the circuit.


or, you can take the fuel pump ground out your harness, run it across your dash and attach it to the ground on the fuel pump relay itself.

LAMENT TERMS: When the MS tries to ground the fuel pump relay, you acutally ground the fuel pump relay.




if you keep the AFM in place the AFM grounds the fuel pump relay.

I'm not quite sure how that circuit is supposed to work. That PNP darlington is backwards.


EDIT: Just looked up the datasheet on the TIP125. The pin numbers are correct, but the symbol is flipped (collector/emitter) in the schematic above.

oh. i didnt draw that.

looking at it from above:
-o
[_]
|||
123

1. FP ground in through 27ohm
2. output to 1C, non-banded diode to 12v source
3. 12v source



when I build it I use a 270ohm on the input (leftover from build) and two 1K resistors in series to jump 1. and 3. (leftover from build). This is what they use on the MSPNPs and this circuit is provided on the DIYPNP board and what I use for the fuel pump on 1.6L installs.

I've been building the following circuit for all NAs for quite a bit of time, it works rather well too:

http://users.forthnet.gr/ath/twikico..._schematic.png

http://users.forthnet.gr/ath/twikico...pump_board.png

Dimitris

Bah. :crx:
The circuit works; I used it to drive fuel pump relays on the 1.6 car. Nice catch Joe.

The DIYPNP v1.5 board has something similar onboard already.

I'm assuming you mean "Laymen's Terms". Either that or you are lamenting the function of the circuit. ;)

yeah that.

It could also be "Lamer's terms" or something.

dumb folk terms:

hmm is this considering the MAF not connected anymore, It should be fine supplying 12v to the FP line if the stock MAF is in place correct?

its just a way to activate the fuel pump relay. you either add the ground to it in place of the AFM (no additional circuit, but extra wiring) or backfeed 12v to the relay to activate it.

http://www.boostedmiata.com/technical/FuelPump.gif


back-feeding the 12 volts would be giving it 12v to the spot labeled ECU STA on the above diagram, the ground to the AFM isn't needed that way. make sense? you dont want to just give it 12v from the harness at 1B because then the pump will be running anytime the key is on.

techincally you can do the same by jumping F/P and GND in the diagnostics box, but it's not the right way.

Isn't this how most cars fuel pumps run anyways, I believe.

Also

http://a.imageshack.us/img832/3261/v...0217h49m23.png

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Hondas generally prime the pump at key on, then the pump only runs when the engine is running.

Makes sense, don't need the pump running if the engine isn't.

no, they use relays. the pump doesn't run with key on.

ok, well anyways I got it done and threw it into the car but seems trying to crank it I see no rpms, I checked my CAS pickup wiring on the harness I built to see if it was that, seems thats fine, so it must be the mods most likely. That or the pins are wired internally to a different pin for pickup compared to the harness.

mods look correct on board from what I can tell,
Whats the clutch for in the wiring, it shows it being wired up but looking at pinouts on the v1.01 board shows nothing connected on that line.

Heres a log file if anyone wants to check it out that may have more helpful insight, all I can think of off hand is its not picking up the CAS or there maybe more settings I forgot about, but I figure it should still be able to show the rpms with the correct trigger wheel settings.

thoughts? maybe it won't output unless some circuit is connected that I missed?

another useless question, why on the 1.6l standalone harness there is noted chassis ground and sensor ground and on the boomslange its just know as black ground. For my grounds I only put two to the chassis grounds and left sensor ground unconnected
1 cable to 3 grounds on the MS

It's a safety feature. If you crash and rupture a fuel line, you don't want the pump to keep running. Burning to death is one of the shittier ways to go from what I understand.



The official, according-to-Hoyle nomenclature for the ground wires on the 1.6 ECU is as follows:
2A: Injector ground (goes to ground common JC-03)
2B: Output ground (goes to ground common JC-03)
2C: CPU ground (goes to ground common JC-02)
2D: Input (sensor) ground (goes to ground common JC-02)

Eventually, JC-02 and JC-03 wind up getting commoned together, and terminate at the ring lugs on the back of the intake manifold.

They key point is that the sensitive stuff (sensor and CPU ground) is kept separate from the noisy stuff (injector and output drivers) for as long as possible, right up until they common at the end.


From the log, I can tell you that it is seeing the second (CMP) signal at pin 11 of the ECU (PTC4, which is the 16's position, is toggling, as the decimal value of portc transitions between 3 and 19 while cranking) however it does not appear to be seeing the primary trigger.

I did a contunity test on it and my multimeter shows 1800~ on the cas line, measureing from where I put the resister on the diodes 5 and 9 to the pin on the db37 connector on the ecu, maybe this has to do with it?

though from pin 11 on the cpu to the db37 connector cas pin I get 0 so that is good

EDIT: nvm this crap, figured what that was about.

Still thinking, I need to monitor to see if 12v is coming though to the cas pickup

I was wondering if portc was that pickup, so is the other pickup another port to check for?

Where are you measuring, exactly?

You should have a ~470 ohm resistor from the striped side of D5 to a source of +12 (the striped side of D9 is an acceptable source), and that's it. If you measure from the striped side of D5 to pin 24 of the DB-37, you should read ~330 ohms (the value of R10.) And from the striped side of D9 to pin 28 of the DB37 (the +12 source), you should see ~470 ohms. Take these measurements twice, with the probes in both orientations, to be sure you're not measuring through a semiconductor or some such BS.



That's odd. You should have a 1k resistor between pin 11 of the CPU and the pin on the DB-37 which you have CMP connected to. It's not strictly critical for operation, but it buffers the CPU slightly.



Uhm, OK.



It's more complicated than that.

Portc is a combination of five different pins at the CPU, one of which happens to be the pin that we use for CMP. In CS-speak, it can be thought of as a register. In order for it to make sense, you have to decode the decimal value in the log to binary, and then align the bit positions in the resultant binary number with the pins of the CPU that they correspond to.

On the "C" port, you are seeing pins 7 through 11, where pin 7 is PTC0 and pin 11 is PTC4.

During the binary-to-decimal conversion, PTC0 has a value of 1, PTC1 has a value of 2, PTC2 has a value of 4, PTC3 has a value of 8, and PTC4 has a value of 16.

So, for most of the log, portc is equal to 3. Decoded out, that's 0000011, where PTC0 is all the way on the right (least significant bit) and PTC7 (which doesn't exist) is all the way on the left (most significant bit.) So, PTC0 and PTC1 were high, and all others low for most of the log.

(For beginners, binary is most easily read from right to left, FYI. You start at a value of 1, and then double the value for each successive bit to the left. If there's a 1 in that bit position, you add its value to the total.)

Occasionally, while you were cranking, portc changed from 3 to 19. Decoded again that's 00010011, telling me that PTC0, PTC1 and PTC4 were high, and all others low. Since PTC4 is pin 11 of the CPU, and that's where CMP is connected, we know that the CPU was seeing activity from CMP.

Sadly, the primary trigger connects to the IRQ pin, which is not part of a register that we can see directly, however since RPM never deviated from 0 even a little bit, we can surmise that the CPU saw no activity on that pin.



Have I mentioned yet that you're nuts for building a 1.01 board? :D

could this be the reason the CKP pickup isn't work seeing as I did the mod for the pcb2.2 and the coil schematics aren't exactly the same.

http://a.imageshack.us/img823/7309/coil.png

Probably. You want this:

(image deleted. It was wrong.)

I'm choosing D9 at random. You can use anything that's connected directly to +12.

ok I see I had the 470ohm attached to the non banded\stripped end of D5, that maybe the problem. from the banded end d5 to pin 24 is 330ohms. and yes its a 470ohms there, checked that correctly.



yeah I wasn't aware of that, I will put one in

I am nuts I guess, but I do appericcate the information and help from yall. I understand better whats going on.

Also I liked that spark output trigger setup you came up with to allow flashing the ecu with the igintor and coilpacks still in, think I will add that in later, first thing is first, get rpms\cas to pickup then fuel circuit.

Actually, I screwed that up. You don't want to go to D5, you need to go to the side of R10 which is away from D5:

http://img02.imagefra.me/img/img02/8...mm_570b3b5.gif

If you can't figure out which side is which, it'll be the side of R10 which reads 0 ohms (full continuity) to pin 24.

The way I drew it originally wouldn't work because the CAS would be trying to pull through R10.

heh yeah I was wondering about going though R10 as on pcb 2.2 the otherside of D5 is straight shot to the db37. no problem, thanks for the update. gonna rework it tomorrow and test.

Background:

The CAS provides what are known as open-collector outputs. That means that it doe not output a voltage, rather it provides a closure to ground when active. It either conducts to ground or it does not.

So, we take +12 (such as from D9) and run it to the point indicated above on R10. When the CAS is inactive (not conducting to ground) the current flows through the 470 ohm resistor, then through R10, and then through the LED section of U4. This causes U4 to turn on.

When the CAS becomes active, it provides a short-circuit path to ground for the current flowing through the 470 ohm resistor. Instead of flowing through R10 and then U4, it takes the much easier path through the CAS. With no current flowing through U4, it turns off.

Coincidentally, this is how things are working on the CPU side of U4 as well. When the CAS is conducting to ground (and thus, U4 is "off"), current flows from Vcc, through R11, and shows up at IRQ-1, which is pin 14 of the CPU. It sees this as a logic "high."

When the CAS becomes inactive (no longer conducting) thus causing U4 to turn on, the current flowing through R11 instead takes a short-circuit path to ground through the transistor portion of U4, which causes the voltage at IRQ-1 to fall to zero (well, not exactly zero, but it's a long story involving semiconductors and forward voltage drop, and suffice to say that it's close enough.)

C11 can be ignored in this simplistic explanation.

ok new info, done the mods, 12v to r10 and 1k on the cpu pin 11 to db37 line.

Still same but more info.

When key is on, I get 5.45 volts reading after the 470ohm to the db37, while cranking the car i get a drop to 4.24 volts

Gonna attach all ground wires and go from there.

still no rpms or pickup, just voltage change while cranking
edited hmmm

Any other thoughts. Maybe bad wiring on the pcb or bad joint?