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Old 04-06-2014, 01:12 PM   #1
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Default MS Labs MS3 basic EBC not working

I have been working on installing and getting the MS Labs, MS3 basic setup done on my turbo build and am at the point of getting the EBC working.
I run (ignition switched +12V) to the EFR EBC solenoid and ground to the MS3 pin 20 green wire MS Labs MS3 basic EBC not working-img_3473.jpg
Set up EBC to 2.7PSI of boost 120KPA MS Labs MS3 basic EBC not working-boost-screen-5psi.jpg
but am getting 7 PSI of boost with the low boost canister pressure and over 12PSI with the medium pressure canisterMS Labs MS3 basic EBC not working-img_3475.jpg
I checked to make sure that the solenoid is getting 12V and rigged an LED 12V test light with switched 12V and the ground connected to the MS3 boost control cable pin #20.
The light dos not flicker when I am at 3PSI of boost or higher MS Labs MS3 basic EBC not working-img_3476.jpg
I assume that the problem is related to the MS3 settings or output pins, can anyone see an issue with the settings on the screen shot or something else I have described with the setup?
Thanks
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Old 04-06-2014, 01:18 PM   #2
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Get started with open loop first. Closed loop requires a lot to dial it in right.
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Old 04-06-2014, 01:20 PM   #3
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Thanks, I will try that next
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Old 04-06-2014, 01:49 PM   #4
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2.7 psi? What is your wastegate spring pressure - it will not work if the wg spring is higher than your target...
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Old 04-06-2014, 02:14 PM   #5
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You are right, I will set the target boost to 10PSI 170.3 KPA and try again.
Put the EBC to open loop and can see the test light flickering at different rates when I move the throttle, so I know that he system is working and is a mater of setting the parameters up correctly.
Thanks
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Old 04-06-2014, 02:15 PM   #6
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You can't use EBC to reduce boost under the wastegate setting when using a regular internal wastegate.

<edit> whoops, looks like I'm 1 minute late to the party
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Old 04-06-2014, 02:57 PM   #7
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Ok you got me...
Without ebc the spring canister (brog warner efr) holds the wastegate closed untill the exhaust gasses in the manifold forces the waste open keeping boost levels down to whatever the canister or spring is rated for.
With ebc the solenoid opens at various frequencies allowing air pressure to bleed to atmosphere or work against the spring forcing the wastegate open before the normal spring opening pressure, so one coud run a 30psi canister and it open it at 20psi.
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Old 04-06-2014, 07:26 PM   #8
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Thanks for making me think about this, I had the boost duty table backwards, getting there now.
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Old 04-06-2014, 08:45 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HHammerly View Post
Ok you got me...
Without ebc the spring canister (brog warner efr) holds the wastegate closed untill the exhaust gasses in the manifold forces the waste open keeping boost levels down to whatever the canister or spring is rated for.
With ebc the solenoid opens at various frequencies allowing air pressure to bleed to atmosphere or work against the spring forcing the wastegate open before the normal spring opening pressure, so one coud run a 30psi canister and it open it at 20psi.
No, just the opposite. Charge air (not exhaust) pressure opens the wastegate. The EBC bleeds air, keeping pressure low enough that it does not open the wastegate, even as boost pressure goes higher. It fools the wastegate. Thus one can run a 10 psi canister at 30psi boost, as the canister does not see the true boost pressure.

When the true boost target is reached, then the controller bleeds less of the signal air, allowing the wastegate to see its setpoint pressure (in this case 10 psi) and the gate opens.

It is true that the exhaust pressure can open a gate if the canister spring is sized too low, but that is not how it is supposed to work. EBC helps keep that from happening by not allowing the charge air pressure to aid the exhaust pressure until you want the gate to open.

Balancing of forces Exhaust trying to open, Spring trying to hold closed, and canister signal air also trying to open. EBC bleeds the last off, allowing the spring to win, until the set point is reached.
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Old 04-06-2014, 10:30 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DNMakinson View Post

Balancing of forces Exhaust trying to open, Spring trying to hold closed, and canister signal air also trying to open. EBC bleeds the last off, allowing the spring to win, until the set point is reached.
I agree with your last paragraph
I don't agree with your first paragraph, with a single direction acting diaphragm, pushing opposite to the spring force ( as is the standard EFR canister) it is not possible for the charge air and manifold exhaust pressure acting against the spring to run 20PSI of boost with a 10PSI boost canister, that could work on a diaphragm that sees pressure on both sides and one could aid or oppose the spring force this way.

At any rate I got it tuned with the medium boost canister at 10PSI closed loop.
This helped and may be a good link to included with the ECU instructions.
Boost Control
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