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Old 11-01-2010, 10:31 PM   #1
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Default MS1 + MS2 + Symtech service = no start

I bought the MS2 upgrade service (and MS-II daughtercard) from Symtech Labs.

It took around two weeks from ship-out to receipt of upgraded unit, and they were pretty communicative pre-sale and to update of order status & shipment.

After installing the MS (DB-37, MAP and USB->Serial adapter), i loaded up TunerStudio.

My 1st issue is that i'm a moron. 2nd issue is that i have no real clue how to proceed.

Not knowing what kind of MSQ the MS was loaded with I downloaded a DIYPNP MSQ for a miata w/460cc injectors, gmiat, no MAF (perfect fit for my setup).

After disabling boost control (was giving a boost control pin conflict error), i was able to see RPMs (vs 65535). I then calibrated the TPS, CLT and IAT sensors.

I figured at this point the car should more or less start, but no luck. I tried varying the cranking pulsewidths from less than half of default to over double at around the relevant temperature (approx 45*F), but no luck..

it would crank a bit, then bog, then crank, then bog, then crank, etc. I also tried advancing the cranking ignition timing up to 20 degrees, which created intake popping, then back down to 5 degrees..

Symtech was aware of the make and model (91 miata), so i assume they made all the miata specific mods, but i am not good w/electronics, which is why i shipped out my MS in the 1st place.

Any ideas on what could cause it to just turn over but not catch?
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Old 11-02-2010, 12:28 AM   #2
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I've been reading a bit more and my next step will be to check my crank timing between the MS and the car.. I didn't think of this as i had already been running MS-I, i figured it would be the same.

I noticed that MS-I has a different concept for the ignition 'offset' vs MS-II.. In MS-I i have a value of 77* or so.

What do you MS2 users have in the 'trigger wizard' field? ( i assume that's the corresponding field in MS-II speak)
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Old 11-02-2010, 02:05 AM   #3
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Spark output could be wired backwards. MS-II should be the opposite of how most miata people build an MS-I.
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Old 11-02-2010, 05:54 AM   #4
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Yeah try swopping the leads between the two coilpacks.
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Old 11-02-2010, 09:36 AM   #5
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who the **** is symtech?

if it cranks and then bogs chances are the ignition outputs are reversed. the DIYPNP map is based around inverted spark, was your MS-I setup the same?
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Old 11-02-2010, 09:39 AM   #6
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I'm guessing these dudes?
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Old 11-02-2010, 10:45 AM   #7
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LOL Braineack,u built my MS, I don't really know much aboutt the internals.

Symtechlabs.com appears to be a guy like you (Scott), but he built a website to offer his services.

I think you guys are right though, as I got the response back from him that he didn't 'alter the spark output'.

As far as swapping the leads between the coilpacks, which two am I swapping? I have COPS,can I just swap which oil goes on which cylinder?
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Old 11-02-2010, 11:18 AM   #8
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still wasted spark?

SO what was on 2&3 now goes on 1&4 and vis versa.

for your COPS you can just swop the trigger wires, but would obviously be an easier job if you were running OEM ignition
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Old 11-02-2010, 11:31 AM   #9
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I'm still running wasted spark, I bought a COP harness from railz which connects to the ignitor harness.

So, to be clear, i shouldn't alter anything on the MS board, just rather swap the COPs as described in your post?

Swap Cylinder 2 and Cylinder 1
Swap Cylinder 3 and Cylinder 4
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Old 11-02-2010, 11:46 AM   #10
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You can do either it's up to you they both do the same thing!

Me personally I'd change the board, depends how confident you feel.
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Old 11-02-2010, 12:54 PM   #11
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swap the green/white and brown wires on the harness. (1g & 1h)
or swap the two wires coming off the LEDs inside the box.
or swap #1&4 coils with #2&3

or that could not be the issue at all and they didnt upgrade the tach input mods correctly...but you said you are seeing rpms right? you do need to reverse the spark channels when going from MSI to MSII, they probably just failed to do that.
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Old 11-02-2010, 01:28 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richyvrlimited View Post
You can do either it's up to you they both do the same thing!

Me personally I'd change the board, depends how confident you feel.
I'd love to change it on the board, but i spent a few minutes looking at the various diagrams i've found and none seem to correspond to what i'm seeing on my board.

Are there wires connecting point A to point B that i need to swap?

On the bottom of my MS i have this:

IGN -> LED nearest DB9
IAC2B to LED farthest from DB9
IAC2A to JS4
IAC1B to middle LED
IAC1A to JS10(ign), split to resistor ending at +5V on proto area
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Old 11-02-2010, 01:29 PM   #13
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swap the wires on IGN and IAC2B. they should cross now, do they?
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Old 11-02-2010, 01:29 PM   #14
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brain, didn't see your reply before posting mine.. i will try all of the things in your post, probably in reverse order
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Old 11-02-2010, 01:31 PM   #15
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swapping the coils will be the easy first check. if thay lets it run, then you can go back in later and swap the output wires at the harness and put the coils back in teh proper order.
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Old 11-02-2010, 01:32 PM   #16
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IGN goes to 1 LED, IAC2B goes to other LED.

PRESENTLY (have not swapped yet), they do NOT cross.

If i read your post correctly, after swapping, they should cross.

I will try that now, though the wire is kinda short, not sure if i can swap easily at the side without the resistor.. and my soldering sucks so i'm scared to try the side near leds.
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Old 11-02-2010, 01:36 PM   #17
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I'll try soldering now.. i already have the MS out of the car and disassembled so i may as well do it.
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Old 11-02-2010, 01:37 PM   #18
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sounds like that's the issue:



see yellow wires.


also, do they connect into the proto area like that or directly to the LED? that determines how to setting the spark output mode in your MSQ.
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Old 11-02-2010, 02:35 PM   #19
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mine connect directly to the LEDs, not to proto area. I am soldering now!
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Old 11-02-2010, 02:39 PM   #20
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make sure on your map, that the spark output is set to normal, not inverted.
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