MS2 1.8 Starts, Runs, Revs. What do I do from here? Wont idle. Runs Lean. - Page 2 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 07-10-2012, 06:55 PM   #21
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Ha ha.. newb alert to wb02. higher numbers is lean not rich. I was wondering why I didn't smell fuel. So, it's running lean. Reporting strange numbers.
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Old 07-11-2012, 03:33 AM   #22
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Yup, too lean. Add more fuel in the idle areas and once it is nice and comdy in the idle areas, start autotuning.
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Old 07-11-2012, 08:32 PM   #23
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OK, I will do that.

Couple questions.

1) Does higher numbers mean more fuel or lower numbers?

2) I remember seeing, while playing around with different things, an "idle only" map. Is there one? Was I seeing things? Maybe that was some kind of idle enrichment? Should I mess with that?

3) What range can autotune work in? I was playing with it at one time too and would sometimes see "correcting" with minor changes in values, and sometimes "O2 out of range".

4) should the AFR bounce around like that. It's all over the place it seems. Then it catches, dumps fuel and then super lean again. It's like something isn't reading right.
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Old 07-12-2012, 02:42 AM   #24
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1) Rich = low numbers, lean = high numbers
2) There is no idle-only fuel map on the MS2
3) There is no limit to where autotune will work, except for minimum rpm/map/coolant, which in default settings shouldn't prevent autotune from working.
4) No, it shouldn't.
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Old 07-15-2012, 06:30 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mysticle31 View Post
4) should the AFR bounce around like that. It's all over the place it seems. Then it catches, dumps fuel and then super lean again. It's like something isn't reading right.
Make sure you have a wideband, if you are using the narrowband, this is what you'll get.

If you do have a wideband, make sure you have the EGO calibrated (AFR Table) and setup in the project configuration as a wideband and not as a narrowband.
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Old 07-16-2012, 01:32 AM   #26
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Quote:
Make sure you have a wideband, if you are using the narrowband, this is what you'll get.

If you do have a wideband, make sure you have the EGO calibrated (AFR Table) and setup in the project configuration as a wideband and not as a narrowband.
Thanks for the tips. I've got an LC1 wideband, it's calibrated as a wideband and using the default values for the LC1 in tunerstudio.


Car runs MUCH Better, unplugged ISV.
I've gotten it to run MUCH better and even idle by unplugging the ISV. I dont know whats happening with the ISV but it was kind of fighting itself. With the unplugged ISV it idles, drives, and even auto-tunes now.

It's still can be rough. The AFRs still bounce around a bit. I do eventually want to hook up the ISV again. I'm going to drive it for a bit and see what happens before I post more questions or a datalog for the pros to review


Two interesting things I'm curious about as a newbie.
1) How does the MS2 know engine RPM? I have no factory tach. I have not hooked up the Yel/Blu wire or Blk/Wht wire for the 1.6-1.8 tach. Can the MS2 drive my factory tach?

2) How does the MS2 know ignition timing? Is it some kind of calculation from rod length? Is it based off of base timing? Lets say the MS2 reports 11 degrees advance. Is that always accurate? Or does it depend on if I have the base timing set to 10 degrees + 1 degree advance in the cas?
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Old 07-16-2012, 09:52 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mysticle31 View Post
Two interesting things I'm curious about as a newbie.
1) How does the MS2 know engine RPM? I have no factory tach. I have not hooked up the Yel/Blu wire or Blk/Wht wire for the 1.6-1.8 tach. Can the MS2 drive my factory tach?

2) How does the MS2 know ignition timing? Is it some kind of calculation from rod length? Is it based off of base timing? Lets say the MS2 reports 11 degrees advance. Is that always accurate? Or does it depend on if I have the base timing set to 10 degrees + 1 degree advance in the cas?
1. It takes readings directly from the CAS and determines RPM by the rate of your Crank wheel spinnin'.

1a. yes, easily, or just plug your stock coils back in and jump IG- and b+ with a 1K resistors in the diagnositcs box.

2. You tell it what it is.

2a. There's a trigger angle value YOU must enter. This is the angle before TDC, and uses the value to calculate when to spark. You must tune this value.

2b. Yes, you need to sync the timing.

2c. no, if you don't sync the timing, it won't be accurate.

2d. sort of, you need to lock the timing within the MS to 10. Then you either rotate the CAS or change the trigger angle until the timing light shows you're really at 10. Now you've synced. But, there might be a +/- 2 difference based on sloop of the TB, this is why 99 sensors are much better. Also, you must tune the timing latency or else the timing has a tendency to retard as you increase rpms...this value makes certain the timing always stays put, you must tune this as well: lock the timing, rev the motor and increase/decrease the timing latency value until the timing stays at 10 throughout the rpm band when looking with a timing light.
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Old 07-17-2012, 01:44 AM   #28
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Quote:

1a. yes, easily, or just plug your stock coils back in and jump IG- and b+ with a 1K resistors in the diagnositcs box.
Cool, what is my easily option? I would rather run the tach directly off the MS2, since I've already completed my engine bay wiring harness.

Quote:

2a. There's a trigger angle value YOU must enter. This is the angle before TDC, and uses the value to calculate when to spark. You must tune this value.
I assume this value is specific to the mazda BP and NOT to my specific engine? Since I am using Revs ECU, do I have to do anything with this or is it good?

Quote:
2b. Yes, you need to sync the timing.

2c. no, if you don't sync the timing, it won't be accurate.

2d. sort of, you need to lock the timing within the MS to 10. Then you either rotate the CAS or change the trigger angle until the timing light shows you're really at 10. Now you've synced. But, there might be a +/- 2 difference based on sloop of the TB, this is why 99 sensors are much better. Also, you must tune the timing latency or else the timing has a tendency to retard as you increase rpms...this value makes certain the timing always stays put, you must tune this as well: lock the timing, rev the motor and increase/decrease the timing latency value until the timing stays at 10 throughout the rpm band when looking with a timing light.
I will do that. Thanks.

Can I easily convert to the later style CPS? I still have the block off plate for my CAS, although I still may leave it there for visual. Can I wire straight to the CAS Connector and just reprogram the MS2? I'm not sure if there was a place for the sensor to go on my early 1.8 block.
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Old 07-18-2012, 04:54 AM   #29
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Any updates?

I've noticed some strange behavior from the TPS. Sometimes I'll look at it will show -20% on closed thorttle. It also likes to jump around a bit, although not as much as my AFR does. It's runs good under high throttle and under high load, but stubles in midrange, which seems like classic TPS to me.

My closed throttle value was higher numerically than my WOT value in tuner studio. The closed throttle value was like, 1xx and the WOT value was like 3x. I wonder if I could have some pins backwards. I dont this that would cause all this though because it's just a rheostat, it would just read differently.
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Old 07-18-2012, 06:03 AM   #30
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Have you autotuned yet? The basemap is not always perfect.
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Old 07-18-2012, 09:48 PM   #31
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Oh yeah. I've ran auto tune and drove around a couple of times. It's was getting better, but it's stoped. I'm investigating the TPS right now, then I want to try plugging the ISV back in and see what happens.

I had to unplug the ISV just to get it to idle, it was fighting with itself.

Now I need to figure out why it shudders in the midrange, AFR jumps around alot, plug in the ISV.
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Old 07-20-2012, 01:05 PM   #32
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I've replaced the Tps and it runs much better. The afr still jumps around a bit. The car likes to buck a tiny bit under light load. In high rpms and under high throttle it runs well. Should I play with the Tps adjustment window? Does the ms2 only use two wires of the 4? Volt+ and signal from one side of the adstible resistor? Does it use three? How can I improve it? I'm going to drive it abit
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Old 07-24-2012, 03:42 PM   #33
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Though an email with Rev, I learned that my TPS Averaging Lag Factor was set too high. I've lowered it to 5 and it runs pretty good. No more surging, bucking. I do find there is a slight hesitation sometimes. I've been auto tuning. I went for a drive today and took a log. I was not auto tuning on this log, but I did run it though the the VEAnalyze in MegaTune when I got home.

What do you guys think? Where can improvements be made now?

Its running well enough that I'm going to re-set the idle, and hook up the ISV and see what happens.

Last edited by Mysticle31; 07-24-2012 at 03:59 PM.
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Old 07-24-2012, 03:48 PM   #34
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The car should run fine with the TPS lag factor in the basemap. Given that you had to lower the lag factor this much means that there is something wrong somewhere - there is too much noise in the TPS signal, and by reducing the lag factor that much, you are leaving too much throttle response on the table.
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Old 07-24-2012, 04:01 PM   #35
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OK. I'll go redo my TPS extension harness and see how it changes. What else can cause noise in the TPS?
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Old 07-24-2012, 04:04 PM   #36
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Running the TPS signal wire near high-current, pulsing signals (injectors, idle valve, wideband heater), bad ground, bad TPS unit, corroded TPS/connector pins.
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Old 07-24-2012, 05:05 PM   #37
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Well. I just dumped the crimps in my tps wires and soldered the extension harness in. I also put the TPS in the middle of its adjustment range just to see if I could get a different or fresher area of the tps. Its not corroded.

I could run a special ground to the intake manifold.

should the tps read higher values when closed and lower when open?

I have three tps modules to try.

Just watching the tps gauge, it likes to dip right before any increase in throttle.
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Old 07-24-2012, 06:21 PM   #38
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Found and fixed. Now THATS what the TPS is supposed to be like. Stable, Linear. I had to connect the wires differently than what I thought was correct. I swapped Blk/Lt Green splices to Blk/Blue. Red Splices to Lt. Green/White. Lt. Green/White Splices to Red/Blk. This seems backwards, but it's not. Maybe something is strange, but it works. Rock solid TPS. Time to drive and do some more logs.
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Old 07-26-2012, 05:08 PM   #39
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I just got back from a little tuning drive. This thing runs much better! I like it. Runs good. Where do I go now?

It still has a couple issues I need to address.
1) I have bottomed the idle screw out and it idles at 1000-1200 RPMs. When it was cold this morning, before I drove it, it idled at like 950.
2) It wants to hesitate just a touch.
3) It takes many cranks to start it up. I'll hit the starter and it will crank-crank-crank-crank-crank-crank-crank-crank-vroom.
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Old 07-27-2012, 01:41 AM   #40
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I thought of a new question this afternoon

If I click on tools and go to trigger wizard it shows me timing. That is set to what I read with my timing light. It was like that when I installed the MS2. I did nothing to time the CAS. The ignition map says it should be 14 degrees, and often the ignition timing gauge, and the trigger wizard readout, and my timing light report 7 degrees.. Why?

Last edited by Mysticle31; 07-27-2012 at 01:54 AM.
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