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Old 11-24-2011, 02:02 PM   #1
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Unhappy MS3 first start - please review files

Still trying to get a first start. Can someone help me out with my settings?
It feels like it is trying to catch - but that is all.

MS3/MS3X + DIYBOB

60-2 wheel, hacked off miata CAS for CAM sensor.
IGN1A coils.

I'd appreciate the help. Thanks.
Attached Files
File Type: msl 2011-11-24_12.52.28.msl (56.7 KB, 36 views)
File Type: msq 2011-11-24_12.55.56.msq (130.7 KB, 50 views)
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Old 11-24-2011, 02:07 PM   #2
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Interested in the outcome of this for sure.

How is your 60-2 wheel mounted?
What sensor are you using to read it?
How close is the sensor to the wheel?
1.6 or 1.8L?
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Old 11-24-2011, 03:14 PM   #3
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Yank,

I have an old Shiv Pathak 60-2 wheel assembly. It mounts to the 6mm bolts on the inside of the crank pulley. There is a pressed aluminum cup (probably spun) that extends from the bottom of the pulley up to the face of the pulley.

Argghh. Fail at ascii art. Edge view is like a big washer viewed on edge, sitting on top of a pipe whose diameter matches the ID of the pulley. Then a flat circular plate is on the bottom. Holes are drilled in the circular plate to accommodate the crank bolt and pulley bolts. The Pathak piece is made entirely of one piece. Then a wheel is bolted to the big washer.

The sensor is a 3/8" diameter chisel edge sensor from Electromotive. Gap is close enough - but not too close. Haven't measured it lately - it is about 1 mm.

1.8L engine.
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Old 11-27-2011, 03:27 PM   #4
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Still no start! Can someone help?
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Old 11-27-2011, 08:26 PM   #5
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This is totally the blind leading the blind but FWIW i was told to space the VR sensor the thickness of a business card from the disk.

Did you build the pull up for the VR signal? I somewhat remember there being a voltage pull up option for it..

then again the VR may not even be your problem.
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Old 11-27-2011, 08:54 PM   #6
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post the composite logs during a good 15-20 seconds worth of cranking...
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Old 11-28-2011, 10:16 AM   #7
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You mean a datalog of the cranking? Or the ignition logger composite logger?

I'll do the composite logger if you need it. I seem to have a sync issue at start and stop, but only a count. Seems ok to my uninformed eye. brb
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Old 11-28-2011, 10:20 AM   #8
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yeah the composite logger, if you're not syncing, you wont run. Datalogging is pointless until you can make sre youre reading the cmp/cmk sensors correctly.
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Old 11-28-2011, 10:28 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yank View Post
This is totally the blind leading the blind but FWIW i was told to space the VR sensor the thickness of a business card from the disk.

Did you build the pull up for the VR signal? I somewhat remember there being a voltage pull up option for it..

then again the VR may not even be your problem.
The VR should NOT have a pullup. Hall sensors need a pullup. Hall != VR.

Unless Brain contradicts me, I think my VR is fine. Plenty of signal. Seems to be triggering fine. I have a 1 mm gap for the VR. My clamp for the VR pickup is very squirrelly, can't change one thing at a time. The pickup is centered on the tooth.

Personally I would not make the gap 0.25 mm or so, unless you check the wheel is perfectly centered on the crank pulley. More chances for something to go wrong... 0.5-1.0 mm should be fine. I'm getting > 600 mV peak to peak at 1 mm at cranking speeds. The voltage swing gets larger at greater rpms.
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Old 11-28-2011, 10:39 AM   #10
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yeah, a true VR sensor wouldn't need the pullup on the circuit.
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Old 11-28-2011, 10:43 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
yeah the composite logger, if you're not syncing, you wont run. Datalogging is pointless until you can make sre youre reading the cmp/cmk sensors correctly.
OK.
The earlier datalog only shows loss at turn on and off, not in between. Out to the car...
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Old 11-28-2011, 11:01 AM   #12
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You were right, no consistent CAM sensor output

Time to open the box again.
Attached Files
File Type: csv 2011-11-28_09.50.12.csv (217.4 KB, 44 views)
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Old 11-28-2011, 11:57 AM   #13
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Default Now with cam signal

Had to fiddle around a lot with pot settings. The values I had seemed to latch up the op amp. Changed hysteresis a bit and CAM started working. Still doesn't start, but there is CAM now.
Attached Files
File Type: csv 2011-11-28_10.47.48.csv (125.5 KB, 42 views)
File Type: msq 2011-11-28_10.55.21.msq (130.6 KB, 55 views)
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Old 11-28-2011, 08:30 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowRider View Post
The VR should NOT have a pullup. Hall sensors need a pullup. Hall != VR.
Yeah i have no idea what I'm talking about. I'm just hoping when the time comes i can get mine sorted out quick.

I built the pullup circuit into my board but I'm using a ford focus cam angle sensor which i believe is a Hall effect sensor so i should be fine then... Luck.
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