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Old 06-23-2014, 10:31 PM   #1
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Default MS3X 100% idle duty cycle

So I'm working on getting my '00's idle sorted out on my ms3x. However, it is taking 100% idle duty cycle to get the car to even idle at 850 or so rpm. I cannot seem to make it idle any higher (Falls to a very rough idle at 600 or so rpm when A/C is cut on). Why am I having to use such a high duty cycle to achieve this idle?



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MS3X 100% idle duty cycle-ez2xv7a.png   MS3X 100% idle duty cycle-bu2jqpk.png  
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Old 06-24-2014, 01:11 AM   #2
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Do you have a flyback diode installed between your idle-out and +12V?
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Old 06-24-2014, 02:56 AM   #3
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are you finding your valve % with the idle valve test?

also, what frequency are you setting your idle valve at under startup/idle->Idle control ?
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Old 06-24-2014, 09:14 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stefanst View Post
Do you have a flyback diode installed between your idle-out and +12V?
I do. 1N4001.



Quote:
Originally Posted by bmxfuel007 View Post
are you finding your valve % with the idle valve test?

also, what frequency are you setting your idle valve at under startup/idle->Idle control ?
I don't have TunerStudio available atm, but looking at the raw msq file, I believe it is set to 511Hz.

Code:
<constant name="pwmidle_freq_scale">"511Hz"</constant>
<constant name="pwmidle_freq_pin">"Idle"</constant>
<constant name="pwmidle_freq_pin3">"Off"</constant>
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MS3X 100% idle duty cycle-u2xelpd.png  
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Old 06-24-2014, 09:19 AM   #5
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Open the idle screw on the TB a turn or 2 and see where it idles at without the idle valve being commanded.
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Old 06-24-2014, 09:25 AM   #6
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are you using the correct output? Post your idle settings (dont say you did).
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Old 06-24-2014, 09:25 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oscar View Post
Open the idle screw on the TB a turn or 2 and see where it idles at without the idle valve being commanded.
I'll do this when I work on the car this evening and report back.
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Old 06-24-2014, 09:26 AM   #8
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i highly suggest not touching the idle screw, ever.
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Old 06-24-2014, 09:57 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
are you using the correct output? Post your idle settings (dont say you did).
I don't have access to my personal computer right this minute, so I cannot post a screenshot of my idle settings. I can upload the tune though (Hooray for keeping tunes in dropbox). I'll post a screenshot of the idle screen when I can.

EDIT: Also attached my pinout, just in case.
Attached Files
File Type: msq CurrentTune.msq (239.1 KB, 26 views)
File Type: pdf Schuyler Pinout (1).pdf (43.7 KB, 58 views)
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Old 06-24-2014, 10:30 AM   #10
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Best I can do from work, sorry. They don't like sharing VPN access outside of company computers and I have forgotten my flashdrive.



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MS3X 100% idle duty cycle-x5l1pj4.jpg   MS3X 100% idle duty cycle-qywxqqr.jpg   MS3X 100% idle duty cycle-ofajjut.jpg   MS3X 100% idle duty cycle-inbv5su.jpg  
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Old 06-24-2014, 10:50 AM   #11
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and you get no reaction in idle valve test mode?
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Old 06-24-2014, 11:01 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
and you get no reaction in idle valve test mode?
I got a reaction, but at 100% duty the idle was still only like 800rpm
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Old 06-24-2014, 11:12 AM   #13
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looks like they changed the firmware on my, what's the PID Gains? and why are you on basic and not using PID?


I guess you can go 2-turns CCW on the TB and see if you can manipulate the idle better. you should have an almost 3K swing from about 20 to 60%DC.
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Old 06-24-2014, 11:33 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
looks like they changed the firmware on my, what's the PID Gains? and why are you on basic and not using PID?


I guess you can go 2-turns CCW on the TB and see if you can manipulate the idle better. you should have an almost 3K swing from about 20 to 60%DC.
:shrug: I'm still trying to learn the ropes, and that is just what the tune I started with was set to.

This is using MS3 1.3.2 Beta firmware.

I can turn the TB screw and try that, but until I get alternator control sorted I keep having to swap back to the stock ECU, so just one more thing I'd have to remember to change in the event of ever needing to run the stock ecu during my initial megasquirting adventures.

I'll try and look for the PID gain here in a few minutes.
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Old 06-24-2014, 12:11 PM   #15
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yeah, that's because when it's working, that's the range it should be operating in
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Old 06-24-2014, 12:36 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
yeah, that's because when it's working, that's the range it should be operating in
Just realized you were asking what PID gains were, not what mine are set to.

Any further suggestions besides messing with the TB?
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Old 06-24-2014, 01:54 PM   #17
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double check the you actually put idle control on pin 9?
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Old 06-24-2014, 02:44 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
double check the you actually put idle control on pin 9?
It has to be. Idle valve test DOES change the idle, just not significantly. Maybe like 200rpm from 50% to 100%

It's not exactly what I'd call pretty, but here is a picture of the diodes confirming the idle diode IS in place (ignore the extra pin I caught in the shrink tubing. I'll fix that, it's VICS anyway, not idle.

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MS3X 100% idle duty cycle-xxt15nb.png  

Last edited by Schuyler; 06-24-2014 at 03:20 PM.
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Old 06-25-2014, 10:39 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
double check the you actually put idle control on pin 9?
I turned the TB screw a little, and now I can idle up to around 1300 at 100%. I'm still having issues getting the car to idle though. Cold start: needs throttle assistance to stay going, and stalls without it at the first stop sign or two leaving the subdivision. If I drive for a bit, and come to a stop, it starts idling at like 400, then creeps up to where it should be, almost like it's predicting the wrong duty to start with, and corrects it. I'll have to look in to that.

Instead of making a new thread, I'll throw a few more things in here:

Fan is always on, even though tunerstudio says it should be off. No idea what's causing this.

RPM (Cam?) signal loss at 4500rpm. Tach freaks, alternator light comes on on the dash. Car behaves like fuel cut. From what I've seen you say on another thread though, I should be able to fix this by adjusting the pot on the Xpansion board.

Other than that, AFRs look solid for what driving I've been doing. Just need to get the cam signal fixed, figure out how to get the idle tuned properly, and fix the fan issue. Any suggestions on the above are greatly appreciated.
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Old 06-25-2014, 10:52 AM   #20
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1. the idle is just messed up. why, i dunno. A fully opened idle valve should shoot the idle to around 3000RPM. I don't think it's software related though.

2. messed up your wiring or settings.

3. tune your cam zero-point pot (should have been turned at least 3 full turns CW)
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