Darkwood 1

I've done a bunch of searching and googling on this one and haven't found an answer that pertains to this set up. ( 95' 1.8, 5-speed, Braineack MS3x, Flow Force 640's, FMII with GT2560R )

The cold start seems pretty good. Although, once you bring rpm's up at all, the idle seems to stay high (around 1200 or so) . Putting the IAC in test mode drops the idle instantly to around 850 or so. Perhaps this is unrelated but I thought I'd mention it.

Attached is a Data log. I realized after I recorded the log I had the EGO Authority set to 0 as I had just been Auto tuning and forgot to set it back. The vehicle does this behavior even with the EGO at 15%.

Would someone take a look at the data log and tell me what they think? Thanks in advance.

Braineack

iTrader: (62)

inital duties table is probably a bit on the high side if it hovers before it stabilizes low.


you need like 10% more fuel in your VE idle table. you wont idle well if you're that lean -- the swing in RPMs has a lot to do with your wild swings in AFR.


Tune/stabilize you VE Idle Fuel Table -- get it to idle at 14.0:1 and the rest will follow.

Darkwood 1

Thanks for the quick reply, I will work on tuning the VE idle fuel table then.

I'm not sure what the "initial duties table" is. What would I be looking for here?

Thanks.

Braineack

iTrader: (62)

Initial duties table is the pwm% the idle vale defaults to before it enters CL.

Darkwood 1

Thanks Braineack, bringing the values down a bit in the initial duties table fixed the high idle issue.

I'm working on the idle VE table trying to get a stable AFR. The vehicle idles well under every condition except for the hot soak start.

I'm still experiencing the big swing in AFR's and the stall after the vehicle sits hot for a while. It seems that when the IAT reads 130 or more at start up is when this occurs. AFR's swing back and forth going very lean for a brief time until the IAT temp comes back down, then it is fine again.

I looked at trying to calibrate the AIT (MAT) to have a different value at 130* plus but can't seem to find the option in Tuner Studio. Any thoughts?

Braineack

iTrader: (62)

make sure your MAT corrections table is 100% across.

Darkwood 1

Thanks Braineack, I decided not to mess with the MAT corrections.

I came up with a potential fix for the "Hot Soak" start that is outside of the tuning of MS.

I hooked up my stock PRC solenoid to a momentary on switch, as it was just an experiment and I didn't want to accidentally leave the switch on after a hot start usage. I warmed up the vehicle and tried to recreate the hot soak start condition. I push the button and keep it held in and start the vehicle and the idle is reasonable and doesn't stall. I let it out after a bit and I can see the AFR's stabilize. I found that activating the PRC at idle rich-ens up the AFR's by 2 points or more (16.0 : 1 raises to more than 14.0 : 1) and this is most likely how the factory ECU handles the hot soak condition.

Has anyone else experimented with this idea? I'm now thinking of how I might try to get MS3 to activate the PRC at a certain temp on start up and / or run it for a certain time at hot start. Any thoughts on how this might be done? If not, the "Hot Soak" switch might be a "low brow" fix.

It seems others who switch to a MS have this issue to some degree or another, and it dawned on me that the PRC probably gets thrown in the trash bin when making the conversion and thus creating this condition.

I will continue this experiment and report back with my findings.

Braineack

iTrader: (62)

Looking at your log it doesn't look like MAT corrections is the issue.

I'm curious to see a log at idle when you AITs are not elevated. I think you have general tuning issues.

Consider this: I had no issues tuning a N/A car last weekend with AIT temps averaging 160°F and would hit >190°F

Darkwood 1

OK, thanks. I'm beginning to think my hot soak issue may not be related to the IAT then, as mine will do it only after the car has sat for maybe 15 min or so after being shut down. My IAT temps are not all that high at that point. Perhaps it is in the tune but being new to MS I'm at a loss.

Attached is my current data log after enriching about 10% over the previous log. I drove the car to warm it up and then restarted the car after starting the data logging. My EGO correction is on, I can re-do it with it off if that works better.

stefanst

iTrader: (1)

Injector heat soak is likely your problem. Drop your idle AFR target to 13.5 and make sure you got your dead-times correct. Also allow EGO correction in idle.

Darkwood 1

Lots of good information on this forum, Thank you for your post.

I checked my injector dead time and it was set to 1.2. I looked up Flow Force's recommended number and they show 1.12. So I changed it to 1.12 and the car started running super lean. I did a bit of tuning to try to get it back to being 14.0. Driving it required more auto tuning.

I then remembered setting the Req. Fuel with the numbers Flow Force sent with the injectors. These are 640 cc's that flow tested to 670cc's. So I set the Req. Fuel up with those numbers. Just to see if it would richen up enough, I changed the req. fuel by doing the calculation with 640 instead. The engine richened up across the board and with this new combination, idles better.

I then tinkered with the idle VE again to try and target an AFR closer to 13.5. I found I was able to get the highest vacuum reading (greater vacuum that is) working in the 13.5:1 area but it starts to get a bit stinky (still have the cat installed). I remember the stock ECU targeting close to 14.7:1 and wonder if 13.5:1 is a bit too rich.