Noober Doober. WBO2 // IAT ?? - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 06-07-2010, 07:33 PM   #1
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Default Noober Doober. WBO2 // IAT ??

Got some "noob didn't search the forums very long" type questions:

One: Had the WBO2 Installed just pre-cat in the exhaust when first installed, but now on DIYPNP I do not use the NBO2, and I'm not using race fuel like I first intended, so with no real reason to have the O2 so far down the exhaust line, should I move it to the stock location in the down-pipe? Would this provide better response? I get the feeling my WB isn't responding fast enough to allow VE analyze to make proper adjustments. Probably just part of being a noob?

Two: Grounded WBO2 to ECU via the connector provided by
Is there any reason I should undo this and move to the ECU ground below the throttle body? Better response?


Three: DIYPNP & Methanol Injection -- Currently my IAT sensor is in the intake line post compressor, just before the first W/I nozzle. Should I purchase the closed element sensor and place it by the TB just after the second nozzle? Isn't the closed element sensor slower/less accurate than open?

I have considered getting the aluminum bung and open element sensor and installing it directly in the intake manifold where the sensor should be safe from being saturated in liquid and get the most relative temps.

Recommendations on IAT sensor placement and type for this situation?

After some more tuning I'll post my map and some logs for review. My MAT readings will probably make you fall out of your chair - so beware.
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Old 06-08-2010, 10:41 PM   #2
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Hrm... So I thought I would reply to my own question - so I would have a reply. Lol

Since there has been no replies, I plan to move my WBo2 sensor to the stock narrowband location.

Also - since there was no reply and I believe grounded directly to the ECU should be better than the ECU ground in the engine bay, I will not change this.

As for my IAT sensor - I'm leaving this one open for possible replies. Installing it in my manifold is my choice here and this will have to wait for late summer or possibly Decemberish.
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Old 06-09-2010, 04:05 AM   #3
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don't install your iat sensor directly in the manifold, it'll heat soak.
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Old 06-09-2010, 06:02 AM   #4
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You want that sensor before the throttle body. We can easily JB weld it in place. I'll show you mine though.

I'll call you tomorrow but if you see this first PM to let me know when you're available.

-Luis
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Old 06-09-2010, 07:40 AM   #5
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Leave the O2, It needs to be before the cat but far enough away from the turbo to avoid heat damage.

Ground everything at the same point on the engine so there's less chance of something seeing a different ground potential that could cause inaccurate sensor values or signals.
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Old 06-09-2010, 09:22 AM   #6
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Quote:
f_devocht - don't install your iat sensor directly in the manifold, it'll heat soak.
That's helpful to know. I suspected this may be the case, but installed on the other side of the throttle body, the sensor will be directly exposed to the water injection. Will the open element sensor tolerate this?

Quote:
turotufas - You want that sensor before the throttle body. We can easily JB weld it in place. I'll show you mine though.

I'll call you tomorrow but if you see this first PM to let me know when you're available.

-Luis
I'll PM you shortly after this... I'll need to order a new bung before the sensor can be moved. It's pretty well welded in place. Its not going anywhere any time soon.

Anyway as I mentioned the 2nd W/I nozzle is right where the IAT would otherwise be located right before the TB.

I suppose I could move it just like I orginally moved the first nozzle, but I'm only losing the efficency of my W/I by doing this.

Either way, the sensor will be exposed to alot of water.


Quote:
lordrigamus - Leave the O2, It needs to be before the cat but far enough away from the turbo to avoid heat damage.

Ground everything at the same point on the engine so there's less chance of something seeing a different ground potential that could cause inaccurate sensor values or signals.
So I should run my WB ground to the ECU ground by the throttle body?

This will have to wait for the weekend, so any futher input in the mean time would be great. Whatever it takes to get the best results.

Should I notice any difference once the ground is moved? Currently the WB signal to the ECU appears to match that of the gauge. Not sure if this means the gauge is being accurate or not.

Thanks for the info so far however!
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Old 06-12-2010, 07:01 PM   #7
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You want the IAT close the the throttle body for obvious reasons but I wouldn't move it without moving the WI nozzle as well. I also wouldn't want to switch to a closed unit.

Even if the IAT is only getting a little bit of spray occasionally it could still lead to rust and premature failure.
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Old 06-12-2010, 10:44 PM   #8
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I second leaving the wb02 where it is. Ask me how i know.... Autozone sells a plug to plug up the nb location.
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Old 06-13-2010, 10:52 PM   #9
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Quote:
chicksdigmiatas -I second leaving the wb02 where it is. Ask me how i know.... Autozone sells a plug to plug up the nb location.
I have a couple O2 plugs - but since we're on this topic A) How do you know?
B) Why not leave the narrow band sensor in and use it to calibrate the delay of the WB? I often noticed when on the stock ECU, having both a NB and WB gauge setup at the time that the WB was clearly slower reacting than the NB. Although the NB couldn't give you accurate numbers, it was always right on with the motor, unlike the WB.
So perhaps the NB signal in the datalog could be used to help pin point brief lean spots? I am very new to this tuning so perhaps this has already been discussed or passed over, but mine is still installed and hooked up to the gauge - might as well put it to use...?




Quote:
D.dutton9512 - You want the IAT close the the throttle body for obvious reasons but I wouldn't move it without moving the WI nozzle as well. I also wouldn't want to switch to a closed unit.

Even if the IAT is only getting a little bit of spray occasionally it could still lead to rust and premature failure.

So.... use the open element at all costs..... moving the WI nozzles won't help much in my case, as the sensor ***WILL*** see/feel/mate with - liquid. And I fill my WI tank with 1 gal 70/30 water/meth and 1 gal 50/50... So while it's not 50/50, it still contains a fair amount of methanol.

Any estimates on how long the sensor could handle direct contact with liquid?

I personally suspect that if the IAT sensor is placed close enough to the TB, it will get wet, but by the time the car is parked in -most- cases, the flow of air outside of boost will have the sensor dry.

Especially since I'm logging 300*+ of air temps lol! Yea.... 300+ thats not even 10 psi either :( Thats actually like 8.7 but that sensor is reading pre-water injector temps and the WI starts tapering in at 6.5 psi and is at full spray by 11 psi

The fact of it is, I would also like to 3rd nozzle pre-turbo. So moving all my nozzles around for this IAT sensor isn't working out for my plans.

I'm still wanting to put it in my manifold for these reasons - but I'm wondering what I need to do prevent heat soak?

I have an idea in mind, but it's tacky and short sighted - a correctly sized tube approximately 1/2in. long welded to the manifold in the place of choice and then a rubber hose/tube (heater hose or something very similar) slide over the tube and the thread of the sensor and attached neatly with clamps.

This should reduce the amount of heat transfer from the manifold to the body of the sensor without pulling the sensor too far out of the air stream.

Maybe not? Will the rubber not perform as I intend? Too much heat for this to work? Perhaps removing the sensor too far from the air stream?

I see this upside here of this also pulling the sensor out of harms way of the spray and more so - behind the throttle body - the sensor will be free of any moisture almost immediately after the throttle is closed.
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