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Old 05-18-2012, 04:16 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by Oochi View Post
Fuel pump mod, that thread the guy also has a 90 and was building ms3x, the guy did the fuel pump mod, but I think I just was confused because you can just jump the AFM

you gotta stop following the wikidot page, follow Frank's ms3x writeup. it's the only actual ms3x writeup out there. everything else is just confusing you.

the picture I posted a couple days ago is the only "mods" you need to do for your 90-93 install. just setting up the VR input jumpers for the crank signal input, and jumping the js9 to s12c for the 12v pullup to the daughterboard and expander. that's it. everything else you need is handled in the expander. fuel, spark, launch in, a/c in, a/c out, fan out, idle. so it's all just simply about making the harness.

I never really posted an ms3x writeup because it's so freaking simple I couldn't believe it, but I myself will refer back to franks page...it uses a lot of my pictures anyways
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Old 05-18-2012, 07:45 PM   #82
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... franks page...it uses a lot of my pictures anyways
Don't think I ever said thanks for letting me steal those pics.
So thanks
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Old 05-18-2012, 08:55 PM   #83
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Thank ya, I'm real good at over-thinking and confusing myself.

Is it OK to twist the grounds up like so and solder to 1 pin? Can I do this for the ms3x or should I run each individual wire out?


Also in that picture you can kind've tell how much smaller the white and black wire is. Those were the twisted and shielded ones but when unshielded they are a smaller gauge than the others and I want to make sure they are safe for running the cas on pin 2E and a sensor ground for the black. So cloooooose
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Old 05-19-2012, 10:09 AM   #84
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it's fine.


but are you using heat shrink on the wires once you're done?



One idle mod i do suggest is this:

Quote:
MS3X Idle circuit modification
It’s optional but strongly adviced to install a flyback diode over the idle valve. Without it, the idle pwm % will be around 70, whereas you want it to be around 30 for best control.
Install a 1N4001 with the banded side to 12V and the other side to the idle output of the MS3X (pin 9). I soldered it directly on the Tyco connector.
I just tested the unit i built last week and the idle range sucks. On my car it's between 20-60% PWM where 20% is about 750rpm and 60% is closer to 3K. (I have the idle mod built onto my mainboard)

With the expander unmodified I had to use a range of 70-90% and the step increases per % were huge and maybe idle tough on my car even when using timing correction code. I'm about to modify this board now for it.


im considering doing the same to boost control out as well.

Last edited by Braineack; 05-19-2012 at 12:32 PM.
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Old 05-19-2012, 01:09 PM   #85
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yeah went ahead and did it for idle and boost:


the trace on r64 is very fragile, so i went ahead and dumped hot glue all over it to support the wire and make sure it wouldn't pull up. I'd suggest doing this into your harness...

Last edited by Braineack; 05-22-2012 at 06:43 PM.
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Old 05-19-2012, 08:20 PM   #86
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it's fine.


but are you using heat shrink on the wires once you're done?



One idle mod i do suggest is this:

I just tested the unit i built last week and the idle range sucks. On my car it's between 20-60% PWM where 20% is about 750rpm and 60% is closer to 3K. (I have the idle mod built onto my mainboard)

With the expander unmodified I had to use a range of 70-90% and the step increases per % were huge and maybe idle tough on my car even when using timing correction code. I'm about to modify this board now for it.


im considering doing the same to boost control out as well.
Yes I have the heat shrink sleeves slipped on there, just out of the picture and yet to be heated. So I just have to do what you did in the picture?
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Old 05-19-2012, 08:51 PM   #87
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up to you. the MS developers would say going to the spot i did isn't best and you shoudl go back directly to 12v, so doing it in your harness like Frank suggests in his writeup is probably the best way.


here's my ms3x that I built, tested today running flawlessly:



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Old 05-19-2012, 10:07 PM   #88
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the black case looks really good. What year is the one you made for? It appears that I have INJ A and B switched on my harness. So does INJ A go to Pin 2v which is injectors 2 & 4? Where do you have your ms3x grounds going to?
The idle mod isn't on the 90-93 write up but is on the 99. But it would be the same anyway?
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Old 05-20-2012, 08:21 AM   #89
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yeah went ahead and did it for idle and boost:


the trace on r64 is very fragile, so i went ahead and dumped hot glue all over it to support the wire and make sure it wouldn't pull up. I'd suggest doing this into your harness...
As I also have some problems getting the boost control to work correct with the MS3x - could I also try to put the diode on the connector of the solenoid?
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Old 05-20-2012, 09:48 AM   #90
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the black case looks really good. What year is the one you made for? It appears that I have INJ A and B switched on my harness. So does INJ A go to Pin 2v which is injectors 2 & 4? Where do you have your ms3x grounds going to?
The idle mod isn't on the 90-93 write up but is on the 99. But it would be the same anyway?
90-93. I have INJ B on 2U and INJ A on 2V. SPARK A on 1G, SPARK B on 1H.

Yes, I'd still do the idle flyback mod on the 90-93 install, I did not like the function on the idle valve without it (testing the diode today) compared to how my personal ms3x runs on my car.

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As I also have some problems getting the boost control to work correct with the MS3x - could I also try to put the diode on the connector of the solenoid?
You can, but i dont think it's necessary, I know you must do it for VVT, and IIRC y8s has it across his Idle out too, but not his boost control; his boost control is great through the ms3x.

http://msextra.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=125&t=41437
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Old 05-20-2012, 05:22 PM   #91
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Ok I suppose I need to switch my injector outputs. Where are your ms3x grounds going? I'm also having trouble finding crimp pins for my middle connector. Which ones do I need and where can I find them? Radioshack only had circle ones, couldnt find any anywhere else.
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Old 05-20-2012, 07:32 PM   #92
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Buy them online they are tyco parts the part numbers are in my writeup...I do really like franks solution but im too used to making the harnesses...they are like second nature to me now but I still love the diybob the best


I already said how I ran those grounds.
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Old 05-22-2012, 06:44 PM   #93
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i pulled the diodes, i burnt up c16. running a jumper from s12 with inline diode to the back of d5. Much have been too much flyback through the s12c jumper and killed things.
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Old 05-22-2012, 08:23 PM   #94
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I think I'm going to run the diodes in the harness, so does this mean I should run a jumper too?
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Old 05-23-2012, 04:34 PM   #95
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Always keep flyback diodes off the pcb. They can produce high currents, so I always install them in the wiring loom, keeping the flyback current out of the MS.
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Old 05-23-2012, 04:37 PM   #96
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yeah. i learned the hard way cause i was lazy in the way I wanted to do it. s12 is fine.
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Old 05-24-2012, 01:50 AM   #97
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Will I have to change much using your .msq if I'm running a bone stock 1.6 that wont be on seq fuel/spark?

I've also followed this: http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms3/firmware.html which I loaded the firmware and had success with the stim, except for tach.

Edit: When trying to open your tune on my laptop, I get an window that says
Quote:
Signatures do not match!
Tune file signature: MS3 Format 0235.001
Configuration signature: MS3 Format 0095.005

Last edited by Oochi; 05-24-2012 at 02:22 AM.
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Old 05-24-2012, 10:05 AM   #98
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im using pre1.1beta21. ...looks like youre on very old firmware.

I'd load the beta21 if I weres you.

You should also get on the latest TS beta, as it will download firmwares for you if you dont alreayd have them on your laptop.


youll have to change your req_fuel, change from fully seq to semi-seq in engine constant, change from COP spark to wasted spark, change the dwell from 2.1 to like 3.5 or whatever, change all the inputs and outputs like launch, boost, idle control, fans etc etc to make sure they all jive with your MS and what circuits they are on, and then it would probably start up and run just fine.

You'll have to tweak the PID idle settings and the VE ilde table to fine tune the fuel, but it will be a great start otherwise.
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Old 05-24-2012, 01:11 PM   #99
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im using pre1.1beta21. ...looks like youre on very old firmware.

I'd load the beta21 if I weres you.

You should also get on the latest TS beta, as it will download firmwares for you if you dont alreayd have them on your laptop.
Alright how do I go about doing that. The page I linked is the only one I can find now but I'll keep looking

Quote:
youll have to change your req_fuel, change from fully seq to semi-seq in engine constant, change from COP spark to wasted spark, change the dwell from 2.1 to like 3.5 or whatever, change all the inputs and outputs like launch, boost, idle control, fans etc etc to make sure they all jive with your MS and what circuits they are on, and then it would probably start up and run just fine.

You'll have to tweak the PID idle settings and the VE ilde table to fine tune the fuel, but it will be a great start otherwise.
Cool thanks
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Old 05-24-2012, 01:13 PM   #100
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BTW, just tested the unit and adding the diode for idle output to s12 is good. Dropped the functional range from 70-90% PWM to 20-60% PWM...which is idnetical to my unit. idling great even on wasted spark and batch injection.

beta firmware: http://msextra.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=125&t=44957
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