Pig rich idle - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


MEGAsquirt A place to collectively sort out this megasquirt gizmo

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 02-03-2010, 05:17 PM   #1
I EAT CUM
Thread Starter
iTrader: (6)
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Redneck, Texas
Posts: 1,218
Total Cats: -1
Default Pig rich idle

I have a 97 with 460s, denso cops and a brain MS. M aem analog wb is saying high 10's at idle and the ms is saying high 12's. I have my req_fuel set at 7.7, my cranking settings scaled and my ve table pretty damned low. While the car is running I can lower the ve table lower and lower but without any real results.

I also have my afr table set. I noticed the ego correction at idle does not change while running, not sure if it supposed to. I've also tried to run ve analyzer (TS) while it is running to try and tune my idle but it doesn't change anything.

Copy of the msq in question:
Attached Files
File Type: msq Update version.msq (31.9 KB, 113 views)
Turbo_4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2010, 05:28 PM   #2
Elite Member
iTrader: (8)
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Albany, NY
Posts: 1,523
Total Cats: 4
Default

Your injector(s) leaky? This could make it not respond to VE tuning. I would send them out if I wasn't sure.
webby459 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2010, 05:30 PM   #3
Ben
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (33)
 
Ben's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: atlanta-ish
Posts: 12,689
Total Cats: 99
Default

Hand smooth and hand tune the bottom left colums 20-34 kPa and 1000-1300 rpm (6 cells). The lack of smoothness is going to cause roughness and hunting. I generally have not had much success in getting any autotuning working well for the really light load stuff, so I filter it out and tune it by hand. You obviously can't and shouldn't try to autotune anything with the AEM error. Also since you're probably idling below 1000 rpm most of the time, I'd lower the first column's rpm set point to maybe 700.

You don't have EGO active until over 1500 rpm, and that's fine. Idle typically is smoother without EGO correction.
Ben is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2010, 05:55 PM   #4
I EAT CUM
Thread Starter
iTrader: (6)
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Redneck, Texas
Posts: 1,218
Total Cats: -1
Default

I also might add I still need to set the base timing.

Edit> How exactly do I connect the clamps from the timing gun if I have cops?

Last edited by Turbo_4; 02-06-2010 at 06:09 PM.
Turbo_4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2010, 06:36 PM   #5
Elite Member
iTrader: (13)
 
cjernigan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 8,147
Total Cats: 6
Default

You should be able to put the clamp around the wiring harness if the timing gun has a good pickup clamp. Otherwise use an old miata spark plug wire. Put it inline with the coil pack like you would normally and put the clamp around that.
cjernigan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2010, 07:19 PM   #6
Boost Pope
iTrader: (8)
 
Joe Perez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Delicious and Moist.
Posts: 26,328
Total Cats: 1,926
Default

The gauge itself is saying one thing, and the MS is saying another. Fix that first.

Is MT/TS properly configured for this gauge?
Joe Perez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2010, 09:41 PM   #7
I EAT CUM
Thread Starter
iTrader: (6)
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Redneck, Texas
Posts: 1,218
Total Cats: -1
Default

Well, I'm not exactly sure how to fix that or I would. I changed the corresponding file to AFRS. In TS, Aem gauge 30-42xx is selected. I have the slightest clue if this is my gauge or not. I have the AEM analog gauge from ebay, not the uego. It is grounded off of the throttle body where the ecu is grounded. I'm just trying to figure out which is accurate, the gauge or TS...?
Turbo_4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2010, 09:42 PM   #8
I EAT CUM
Thread Starter
iTrader: (6)
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Redneck, Texas
Posts: 1,218
Total Cats: -1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cjernigan View Post
You should be able to put the clamp around the wiring harness if the timing gun has a good pickup clamp. Otherwise use an old miata spark plug wire. Put it inline with the coil pack like you would normally and put the clamp around that.
Well since I'm not using coil packs anymore that would make it difficult, plus both of my packs are blown...that's why I upgraded to cops. So I should just be able to put the clamp on the little harness I made...for coil 1?
Turbo_4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2010, 06:06 PM   #9
I EAT CUM
Thread Starter
iTrader: (6)
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Redneck, Texas
Posts: 1,218
Total Cats: -1
Default

Alright, well I tried using ve analyzer live and it helped smooth the idle out quite a bit. Now the a/f's on the gauge are mid 12's and 13's on the TS. It seems to be each time I run the car and use the ve analyzer, the idle gets that much better, is this possible? Still not sure what to do about the 1 point difference between the gauge and the computer.
Turbo_4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2010, 11:20 PM   #10
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,900
Total Cats: 1,792
Default

what AEM WB do you have selected in TS? look under project properties and try the other one. I know when I tried TS with an AEM setup, it was spot on.

also, you can rescale your req_fuel value until your AFRs at idle stay closer to 13.5-14, so you dont have idle cells at like 10VE.
Braineack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2010, 01:06 AM   #11
I EAT CUM
Thread Starter
iTrader: (6)
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Redneck, Texas
Posts: 1,218
Total Cats: -1
Default

Scale higher or lower? I have the aem gauge 30-42xx selected...the other option is uego right? I also wanted to know, do I need to select spark inverted since I'm using cops....I'm not sure since I don't know what MS I'm using.
Turbo_4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2010, 08:56 AM   #12
Junior Member
iTrader: (6)
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: St Johns, Fl
Posts: 378
Total Cats: 0
Default

Don't use Spark Inverted unless you are told to by whoever built it for you. COPS has nothing to do with it. Also, it doesn't appear you are understanding the tip for how to check your timing with the COPS. Use a plug wire connected from the end of your #1 COP (where your plug usually goes) to your #1 plug (like a little extension chord). Then hook your timing light up to the plug wire.
clay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2010, 11:27 AM   #13
I EAT CUM
Thread Starter
iTrader: (6)
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Redneck, Texas
Posts: 1,218
Total Cats: -1
Default

How exactly would I connect the plug wire to my cop, tape?
Turbo_4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2010, 11:42 AM   #14
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Schwarzenberg, Germany
Posts: 1,497
Total Cats: 81
Default

Just simply put the timing light clip on the wire to the COP Nr. 1. Works. End.
Zaphod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2010, 12:50 PM   #15
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,900
Total Cats: 1,792
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbo_4 View Post
Scale higher or lower? I have the aem gauge 30-42xx selected...the other option is uego right? I also wanted to know, do I need to select spark inverted since I'm using cops....I'm not sure since I don't know what MS I'm using.

lower. try scaling that instead of scaling down the idle cells disproportionally to the rest of the fuel map.

try the uego option to see if it's better matched.

no, all you need to do is change the dwell from 5.0ms to 2.5ms.
Braineack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2010, 01:05 PM   #16
I EAT CUM
Thread Starter
iTrader: (6)
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Redneck, Texas
Posts: 1,218
Total Cats: -1
Default

I thought that lower was more fuel? Is lower actually less fuel?
Turbo_4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2010, 01:06 PM   #17
I EAT CUM
Thread Starter
iTrader: (6)
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Redneck, Texas
Posts: 1,218
Total Cats: -1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaphod View Post
Just simply put the timing light clip on the wire to the COP Nr. 1. Works. End.

Thank you.
Turbo_4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2010, 02:06 PM   #18
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,900
Total Cats: 1,792
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbo_4 View Post
I thought that lower was more fuel? Is lower actually less fuel?

why would lower mean more? you lower the req_fuel value when you add larger injectors so it injects less fuel at a given VE value.

there's a formula to the fueling:
PULSE WIDTH = REQ_FUEL * VE * MAP * E + accel + Injector_open_time
Braineack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2010, 04:10 PM   #19
I EAT CUM
Thread Starter
iTrader: (6)
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Redneck, Texas
Posts: 1,218
Total Cats: -1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
why would lower mean more? you lower the req_fuel value when you add larger injectors so it injects less fuel at a given VE value.

there's a formula to the fueling:
PULSE WIDTH = REQ_FUEL * VE * MAP * E + accel + Injector_open_time
I'm not exactly sure why I thought that. Currently, I have it set at 7.7 with the 460's...I guess I'll start scaling it down a little at a time until I obtain that 14 a/f. Thanks.
Turbo_4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2010, 02:52 AM   #20
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Schwarzenberg, Germany
Posts: 1,497
Total Cats: 81
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbo_4 View Post
I'm not exactly sure why I thought that. Currently, I have it set at 7.7 with the 460's...I guess I'll start scaling it down a little at a time until I obtain that 14 a/f. Thanks.
Huh? You simply calculate your req fuel with the built in calculator - should give you something like 5.8 or 5.9 on a 1.6 with 460cc.
Zaphod is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Back to Stock Part Out!! Turbo Parts, MS2 Enhanced 01-05, Suspension, and MOAR! StratoBlue1109 Miata parts for sale/trade 16 10-02-2015 10:39 AM
Time to start learning and play with tuning The Gleas MEGAsquirt 3 10-01-2015 10:30 AM
Low oil pressure after 1.8 swap and new turbo setup JesseTheNoob DIY Turbo Discussion 15 09-30-2015 03:44 PM
why is my car running like pewp? (tune/datalog) itsMikey MSPNP 3 09-28-2015 07:40 AM
Air Coolant Correction 86-145 iparnell MEGAsquirt 2 09-13-2015 08:04 PM


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:48 PM.