miatauser884

iTrader: (11)

Here is a few screen caps of my afr and afr target between shifts, coming off idle, and full throttle run. I'm wondering if my AE is doing anything. My values are very small compared to y8's values.







That throttle movement on the 100% TP pull is only 300%/s

I'll need to see a log of 1500%/s before I buy it. Do a mouse click speed test. Your finger should be faster than your foot.

Reverant

iTrader: (10)

Wanna see 2227.8%/s? 0-41% in 32ms.

y8s

iTrader: (8)

TPSDOT


MAPDOT


Notice in the 2nd image how high MAPDOT is when TPSDOT is not that high... if the turbo is spinning and you slowly open the throttle... air rushes in.

like i said, I just retuned it... but haven't driven on it yet. this is based on this morning's datalogs (the above images are from last night)

miatauser884

iTrader: (11)

Ok, then this process needs to be explained to me. I've been using TPS. i.e. It took your TPS to 32ms to get to 41% so that would be 41/.032s

1281%/s

CRAP!!!! I didn't realize I should have been using TPS dot. What is a reasonable ballpark pulswidth range? My values are all less than 1ms, which seems wrong.

y8s

iTrader: (8)

Really you just gotta drive at different RPM ranges and stab the throttle. keep adding enrichment until the spike goes away. you want the AFR to end up somwhere between your AFR target and maybe 3-5% richer for smoothness I've found. Much richer and it feels sluggish. leaner and it hesitates. richer is much easier to drive though.

miatauser884

iTrader: (11)

Ok, so now my max value I get using the TPSdot instead of TPS is 2036%/s. From this I gather that I should set my max value around 2000%/s???

Reverant

iTrader: (10)

My max value is 500%/s.

miatauser884

iTrader: (11)

Is that because it encompasses the area that you feel needs the most help? I can see a range in my logs based on the driving I do.

Full throttle punch ~ 1900-2000%/s
In between shifts ~ 600 - 950%/s
Off idle ~ 350-650%/s

i could probably get away with a range of 300 - 1000 and be fine. I'm going to try and remove the stumble by adding more fuel. I think I wasn't in the ballpark with all of my values being under 1ms.

Thanks for all of the help. I sure have this one messed up.

y8s

iTrader: (8)

once you get above 500, there isn't much change in fuel requirement. notice my curves get flatter as rate increases.

miatauser884

iTrader: (11)

I noticed this while driving home. It only got to 600 once when I really jabbed the throttle. It seems like the more fuel I pull the better it drives. Maybe my VE table is just tuned really well. I removed fuel and stumble seems to go away.

miatauser884

iTrader: (11)

What exactly are you calculating in order to determine your range? Your TPSdot value is probably going to be higher than you have shown. It probably took a fraction of a second to get to 2227.8% if it was 32ms, then you actually have a TPSdot value of 69618.75%/s OR are the units of TPSdot %/s in which case I am making a bunch of unnecessary conversions.

Are you using TPSdot to find your scale, or are you just using the peak TPSdot to find the TPand then using TP/s?

I am starting to get the feeling that the units of TPSdot are in %/s. This would make what I am seeing on the AE graph make a lot of sense.

John151

I have found TPS to work much better than MAP. My shifts are like "butta". I am probably dumping in too much fuel, and for too long, but there is little motivation to change since my shifts are so smoooooth. I also could use more fuel cut on decel, but again, not a top priority.

This is on 420 CC injectors, and MSPNP.

miatauser884

iTrader: (11)

I wanted to post up again to say thanks and recap in case anyone else messes this up like me.

The TPSdot units are in (%/s) so the ms2 TPS accel enrichment graph is PW adder (ms) VS TPSdot

I was unaware that the accel enrich table traces your last throttle jab. Now I understand what Brain meant by "watch the green dot". So, it is very easy to see what part of the graph needs to be adjusted while you are driving. No need to datalog, just tune for feel.

I think my off idle smoothness is more to do with my PP and 6 puck

poobs

iTrader: (1)

Is the real time graph at the bottom of the AEwizrd screen a paid feature ?

sccaax

I'm finding that my ideal PW adders are much smaller than most posted here. I'm running a 96 1.8 with the 99 cylinder head and injectors. Shouldn't be much different than most stock 1.8s. However, my current enrichments are something like this:

100%/s (~5v/s?) - 2.0
200%/s (~10v/s?) - 4.0
400%/s (~20v/s?) - 5.0
600%/s (~30v/s?) - 6.0

My threshold is 50%/s
Minimum RPM is 2500
Max is 5000 I think

Haven't finished tuning them. Actually, they're still producing AFRs of about 10:1 in sharp throttle situations. To confirm, I also find it difficult to push the throttle more than 600%/s in a realistic acceleration scenario. I also find that the curve levels out at these higher levels and the throttle really isn't opening that much faster.

Can anyone besides the 1.6 guys confirm these numbers on a naturally aspirated car?

Thanks

miatauser884

iTrader: (11)

Mine are much smaller than yours. I think a well tuned VE table means very little AE. Especially with sequential injection. Mine feels good,a dn I've only done the initial tune at idle stabbing the throttle. I'm thinking that it will need a little more fuel under load, but I could be wrong. I'm going to tune for feel, not a particular AFR number.

Enginerd

iTrader: (1)

Jesus! No wonder my recent tuning endeavor was a blessing in disguise. A few weeks ago I was driving around fairly rich. I've refined the VE Table to be right on with the AFR targets, but quite lean from acceleration enrichments.

It looks like my previous VE Table masked much of the horrid-ness of the acceleration enrichment settings by simply richening up the VE Table.

Here's the default from the 94-95 MSPNP, which is what I have been running on the same 320cc injectors:

1.0 v/s = 0.9 ms
2.9 v/s = 2.0 ms
5.1 v/s = 3.8 ms
8.0 v/s = 4.5 ms

Also interesting, the MSPNP Table peaks at 5.3 ms enrichment.
EDIT: Forgot to mention that those MSPNP defaults are NOT what I am running...I'm fine tuning the AE this week.

skinny

MSPnP running stock injectors:

rate (v/s) - value (ms)
6.1 - 3.8
2.5 - 2.6
1.4 - 1.5
0.6 - 0.6

TPs threshold at 0.4v/s

seems to work very well in driving - pulls the AFR down close the target most of the time, doesn't quite catch it on an idle blip but i figure that's not so important.

Enginerd

iTrader: (1)

Sadly I will need to get back to tuning another time...lost the clutch this week. Anyways, I began logging an increase in pulsewidth when subtly letting off the throttle which was significant enough to drop afrs to 10-11 and make driveability poor..even with 90% decel. What would cause that?