Questions before installing an MS3PNP
12-23-2020, 11:02 PM
#1
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Join Date: Dec 2020
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Questions before installing an MS3PNP
Hello, I have a 2001 daily-driven Miata that I am embarking on a journey to turbocharge. I have what I would like to consider above-average mechanical knowledge but I do have a few questions about MS before I go standalone, for I have never worked with an ECU such as this. Here go the questions:
1) I understand that when going standalone, all CEL functionality is lost. With that being said, is the MS sensor check functionality sufficient enough to diagnose most issues not related to fuel, ignition, and timing?
2) My car has functional A/C and power steering and I would like to retain that functionality. I have read some things about maintaining the functionality of the A/C and to be quite honest, I have never worked a "project-car" with A/C so keeping it with a standalone ECU appears quite daunting. Are there any quick pointers to help guide me in my first setup with MS to maintain A/C so that I do not have much downtime?
3) Finally, not really a question, just a request for any other tips and tricks that will make my life easier when making the switch.
Thank you in advance,
Marvin
1) I understand that when going standalone, all CEL functionality is lost. With that being said, is the MS sensor check functionality sufficient enough to diagnose most issues not related to fuel, ignition, and timing?
2) My car has functional A/C and power steering and I would like to retain that functionality. I have read some things about maintaining the functionality of the A/C and to be quite honest, I have never worked a "project-car" with A/C so keeping it with a standalone ECU appears quite daunting. Are there any quick pointers to help guide me in my first setup with MS to maintain A/C so that I do not have much downtime?
3) Finally, not really a question, just a request for any other tips and tricks that will make my life easier when making the switch.
Thank you in advance,
Marvin
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12-24-2020, 06:42 AM
#2
Retired Mech Design Engr
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Seneca, SC
Posts: 5,009
Total Cats: 857
Welcome
I suggest going to the msExtra website and download the “getting started” and the TunerStudio Manual to get a feel for functionality.
Limited CEL and sensor checks.
A/C is no worries. My MS3 Basic from MS Labs also controls the 2nd fan properly.
DNM
I suggest going to the msExtra website and download the “getting started” and the TunerStudio Manual to get a feel for functionality.
Limited CEL and sensor checks.
A/C is no worries. My MS3 Basic from MS Labs also controls the 2nd fan properly.
DNM
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12-24-2020, 10:53 AM
#3
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Granbury Texas
Posts: 668
Total Cats: 190
Hot, diggity damn...
This is an 18 year old kid who is DOING IT RIGHT.
Your first two post were quite good.
You're looking for advice BEFORE doing stuff or buying stuff.
You initial choices are excellent. MS and MKTurbo.
And you're doing it in the right order!
You have lucked into what I believe is the BEST car to start with.
01 or 02 NB2 with the 6 speed and the 3.9 torsen.
It's what I have...
Your only real drawback with that car is the 10.5/1 comp ratio.
It can be used with pump gas (super ONLY) but you will have to start conservative with the boost...
That high a comp ratio really requires heavy fuel, race gas or E85.
As long as you have access to it in your area I'd start with E85 capable setup from the get go.
Do shitloads of reading posts, This is the ONLY decent forum for serious internals and turbo applications.
There is a bunch of super experienced people (DNM in one of them) on here that are completely tired of "wannabe" first time posters...
You're the "curve breaker".
You may not think it yet but you're doing FAR better than the average first time puppy.
I cannot help with MS stuff yet, there are far bigger dogs than me on here who will if you ask nicely.
My suggestions...
Be polite, don't take offence if someone seems snarky.
Don't automatically "build" an engine, Bend a rod first...
Do lots of research, Read lots of build threads. Think about the questions you are going to ask BEFORE you post them.
If someone takes the time to answer your questions DO NOT ARGUE with them. Thank them for helping you EVEN if you don't agree with them.
This is the place for "soaking up" knowledge.
Get comfortable for a nice long soaking...
Welcome to the forum!
I'll be watching to see if you continue on the right path...
This is an 18 year old kid who is DOING IT RIGHT.
Your first two post were quite good.
You're looking for advice BEFORE doing stuff or buying stuff.
You initial choices are excellent. MS and MKTurbo.
And you're doing it in the right order!
You have lucked into what I believe is the BEST car to start with.
01 or 02 NB2 with the 6 speed and the 3.9 torsen.
It's what I have...
Your only real drawback with that car is the 10.5/1 comp ratio.
It can be used with pump gas (super ONLY) but you will have to start conservative with the boost...
That high a comp ratio really requires heavy fuel, race gas or E85.
As long as you have access to it in your area I'd start with E85 capable setup from the get go.
Do shitloads of reading posts, This is the ONLY decent forum for serious internals and turbo applications.
There is a bunch of super experienced people (DNM in one of them) on here that are completely tired of "wannabe" first time posters...
You're the "curve breaker".
You may not think it yet but you're doing FAR better than the average first time puppy.
I cannot help with MS stuff yet, there are far bigger dogs than me on here who will if you ask nicely.
My suggestions...
Be polite, don't take offence if someone seems snarky.
Don't automatically "build" an engine, Bend a rod first...
Do lots of research, Read lots of build threads. Think about the questions you are going to ask BEFORE you post them.
If someone takes the time to answer your questions DO NOT ARGUE with them. Thank them for helping you EVEN if you don't agree with them.
This is the place for "soaking up" knowledge.
Get comfortable for a nice long soaking...
Welcome to the forum!
I'll be watching to see if you continue on the right path...
Last edited by technicalninja; 12-24-2020 at 10:56 AM. Reason: Only the ninja knows...
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12-24-2020, 03:02 PM
#4
Cpt. Slow
iTrader: (25)
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Oregon City, OR
Posts: 14,206
Total Cats: 1,139
CEL still functions fine, but much like stock, it's not meant to warn you when you're over heating, but instead tell you the coolant temp sensor has failed due to lack of signal or -40 (usually means it's disconnected)
Although the stock ECU has a minor idle-up feature on the PS (the single wire coming out of the top of the pump), I've never had an issue with not having that feature on the MS.
AC idle up is a direct menu with many settings in the startup/idle menu, I suggest you start looking at those menus to familiarize yourself.
Although the stock ECU has a minor idle-up feature on the PS (the single wire coming out of the top of the pump), I've never had an issue with not having that feature on the MS.
AC idle up is a direct menu with many settings in the startup/idle menu, I suggest you start looking at those menus to familiarize yourself.
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12-25-2020, 12:14 PM
#6
Newb
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2020
Posts: 6
Total Cats: 0
Hot, diggity damn...
This is an 18 year old kid who is DOING IT RIGHT.
Your first two post were quite good.
You're looking for advice BEFORE doing stuff or buying stuff.
You initial choices are excellent. MS and MKTurbo.
And you're doing it in the right order!
You have lucked into what I believe is the BEST car to start with.
01 or 02 NB2 with the 6 speed and the 3.9 torsen.
It's what I have...
Your only real drawback with that car is the 10.5/1 comp ratio.
It can be used with pump gas (super ONLY) but you will have to start conservative with the boost...
That high a comp ratio really requires heavy fuel, race gas or E85.
As long as you have access to it in your area I'd start with E85 capable setup from the get go.
Do shitloads of reading posts, This is the ONLY decent forum for serious internals and turbo applications.
There is a bunch of super experienced people (DNM in one of them) on here that are completely tired of "wannabe" first time posters...
You're the "curve breaker".
You may not think it yet but you're doing FAR better than the average first time puppy.
I cannot help with MS stuff yet, there are far bigger dogs than me on here who will if you ask nicely.
My suggestions...
Be polite, don't take offence if someone seems snarky.
Don't automatically "build" an engine, Bend a rod first...
Do lots of research, Read lots of build threads. Think about the questions you are going to ask BEFORE you post them.
If someone takes the time to answer your questions DO NOT ARGUE with them. Thank them for helping you EVEN if you don't agree with them.
This is the place for "soaking up" knowledge.
Get comfortable for a nice long soaking...
Welcome to the forum!
I'll be watching to see if you continue on the right path...
This is an 18 year old kid who is DOING IT RIGHT.
Your first two post were quite good.
You're looking for advice BEFORE doing stuff or buying stuff.
You initial choices are excellent. MS and MKTurbo.
And you're doing it in the right order!
You have lucked into what I believe is the BEST car to start with.
01 or 02 NB2 with the 6 speed and the 3.9 torsen.
It's what I have...
Your only real drawback with that car is the 10.5/1 comp ratio.
It can be used with pump gas (super ONLY) but you will have to start conservative with the boost...
That high a comp ratio really requires heavy fuel, race gas or E85.
As long as you have access to it in your area I'd start with E85 capable setup from the get go.
Do shitloads of reading posts, This is the ONLY decent forum for serious internals and turbo applications.
There is a bunch of super experienced people (DNM in one of them) on here that are completely tired of "wannabe" first time posters...
You're the "curve breaker".
You may not think it yet but you're doing FAR better than the average first time puppy.
I cannot help with MS stuff yet, there are far bigger dogs than me on here who will if you ask nicely.
My suggestions...
Be polite, don't take offence if someone seems snarky.
Don't automatically "build" an engine, Bend a rod first...
Do lots of research, Read lots of build threads. Think about the questions you are going to ask BEFORE you post them.
If someone takes the time to answer your questions DO NOT ARGUE with them. Thank them for helping you EVEN if you don't agree with them.
This is the place for "soaking up" knowledge.
Get comfortable for a nice long soaking...
Welcome to the forum!
I'll be watching to see if you continue on the right path...
Reply
0
0
12-25-2020, 12:15 PM
#7
Newb
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2020
Posts: 6
Total Cats: 0
CEL still functions fine, but much like stock, it's not meant to warn you when you're over heating, but instead tell you the coolant temp sensor has failed due to lack of signal or -40 (usually means it's disconnected)
Although the stock ECU has a minor idle-up feature on the PS (the single wire coming out of the top of the pump), I've never had an issue with not having that feature on the MS.
AC idle up is a direct menu with many settings in the startup/idle menu, I suggest you start looking at those menus to familiarize yourself.
Although the stock ECU has a minor idle-up feature on the PS (the single wire coming out of the top of the pump), I've never had an issue with not having that feature on the MS.
AC idle up is a direct menu with many settings in the startup/idle menu, I suggest you start looking at those menus to familiarize yourself.
Reply
0
0
12-26-2020, 12:23 PM
#8
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Granbury Texas
Posts: 668
Total Cats: 190
I was hoping someone would comment on the compression ratio because that was another concern I had that I forgot to mention. I will look into E85 in my area, I currently run Shell 93 religiously. Out of curiousity, is 8-10psi of boost too steep of a number to see in my application with only 93 pump gas?
NEVER fill up at a no name gas station OR any Brand name gas station that will not take the parent company gas card...
A "Shell" station that is NOT running "Shell" gas CANNOT take the "Shell" credit card.
This happens more often than you might think...
You have it right regarding boost level for your 10.5/1 compression ratio. Start at 7-8 and slowly work up to 10 over a month of testing.
It's far better to be rich and retarded (a little bit) than lean and advanced...
You will need serious knock detection equipment.
I'm guessing a bit but 10psi on 10.5/1 should be near the limits of a stock motor. Somewhere in the 225-250 hp range, maybe more.
E85 at 12-14 psi will be OVER the limits of the stock motor and you will have to build an engine.
225 hp Miata is a BLAST to drive. Run it for a while before upping the boost.
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12-26-2020, 06:02 PM
#9
Junior Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Edmonton, Canada
Posts: 239
Total Cats: 26
Best wishes on getting started. I started last Spring, and then hung it up until just a few weeks ago, since the racing season had started.
I had a lot of questions, many related to not knowing the various functions buried within the MS tuning software. And many people were kind enough to answer them.
https://www.miataturbo.net/mspnp-55/...-tunes-102927/
I had some questions about the lack of a vacuum reference on the 2001, and got some answers on that.
I later discovered the MS3 PnP tune on the 2001 PnP actually came set for vacuum referenced, so you may want to look into that.
https://www.miataturbo.net/general-m...estion-103119/
I struggled for hours to just get the ECU out! The top nut that holds it is well hidden. With the stud serving as a mounting point for a bundle of wires, and several of the electrical boxes mounted to that same stud, the nut on the end of it was very hard to find, and even harder to reach. I ended up taking the chair out to be able to lie on my back.
The DIY instructions say you can zip tie it in place, but it would not stay, and kept slipping down into the clutch pedal area. I drove it for months that way, but it was not comfortable.
Someone here said you HAVE to get the Singular Motorsport bracket. I did, and having installed it now, I entirely agree. Where you might not need one for the 90-98 mount location, it really is a must for the NB. I concluded I was not going to be able to build one myself for much less, so bought it.
https://www.good-win-racing.com/Mazd...t/61-1587.html
Happy moving up the learning curve!
I had a lot of questions, many related to not knowing the various functions buried within the MS tuning software. And many people were kind enough to answer them.
https://www.miataturbo.net/mspnp-55/...-tunes-102927/
I had some questions about the lack of a vacuum reference on the 2001, and got some answers on that.
I later discovered the MS3 PnP tune on the 2001 PnP actually came set for vacuum referenced, so you may want to look into that.
https://www.miataturbo.net/general-m...estion-103119/
I struggled for hours to just get the ECU out! The top nut that holds it is well hidden. With the stud serving as a mounting point for a bundle of wires, and several of the electrical boxes mounted to that same stud, the nut on the end of it was very hard to find, and even harder to reach. I ended up taking the chair out to be able to lie on my back.
The DIY instructions say you can zip tie it in place, but it would not stay, and kept slipping down into the clutch pedal area. I drove it for months that way, but it was not comfortable.
Someone here said you HAVE to get the Singular Motorsport bracket. I did, and having installed it now, I entirely agree. Where you might not need one for the 90-98 mount location, it really is a must for the NB. I concluded I was not going to be able to build one myself for much less, so bought it.
https://www.good-win-racing.com/Mazd...t/61-1587.html
Happy moving up the learning curve!
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