Reverant MS2, Lean under throttle tip-in + slight stumble, accel enrich wrong? - Page 2 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 05-06-2013, 09:05 PM   #21
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4.4%/sec


Seems like crazy amounts of fuel being added to me, but mostly got rid of the stumble. Obviously it does go pretty rich under throttle now, but doesn't hesitate like it was before.
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Old 05-07-2013, 01:41 AM   #22
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One thing I see after looking at your log quickly is that when you step on the pedal lightly it pulls 2 degrees of timing right away. That cant be helping anything when it comes to getting smooth off idle response.
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Old 05-07-2013, 08:39 AM   #23
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Hmm... Yeah I see that too, but it seems to be properly following the base ignition map (back on pg 1) I got from Reverant.

I'll try running the idle rpm columns all at a constant 14 deg and see if that helps. I did notice that this IGN map is very conservative compared to what others here are running, Joe P, Braineack, etc.
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Old 05-07-2013, 09:14 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sbcrx007 View Post
4.4%/sec

You post the lowest value point you have in your table, NOT your threshold. Why dont you scroll the window down and actually check? If your threshold was 4.4%/sec you'd be complaining about AE engaging constantly and making the drive undrivable.
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Old 05-07-2013, 09:15 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gt2560rMiata View Post
One thing I see after looking at your log quickly is that when you step on the pedal lightly it pulls 2 degrees of timing right away. That cant be helping anything when it comes to getting smooth off idle response.
actually...
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Old 05-07-2013, 09:59 AM   #26
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Excellent point Brain, I'm still getting used to the software and hadn't even noticed the slider bar... Ouch. Thought you just meant threshold as in the start of the graph. Will check the settings tonight.

Oh, and AE is indeed engaging constantly, but that's what got rid of the lean stumble... I figured I was either tuning it out by MAP via the VE table, or by adding more fuel earlier with AE.. Ended up with a combo of both that helped, but doesn't seem like the right way to do things.
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Old 05-07-2013, 10:18 AM   #27
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if ae was constantly triggering is would be horrid and constantly spiking rich at idle when triggered.
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Old 05-07-2013, 10:57 AM   #28
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Hmm.. Duly noted, will check to see what those other settings are. It does go pretty rich when you get your foot in it, whether at idle or just will driving... Deep down into the 10's on the WB. I was just happy it wasn't stumbling as bad.
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Old 05-07-2013, 06:47 PM   #29
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Right, here's the rest:
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Reverant MS2, Lean under throttle tip-in + slight stumble, accel enrich wrong?-accelenrichwizard5_7_13_zps341191cb.jpg  
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Old 05-07-2013, 10:33 PM   #30
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Played with my newfound settings a bit, here's where I ended up. Still very rich when AE comes on, but still get that lean blip when I tap the gas lightly.


Here's another log as well:
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Reverant MS2, Lean under throttle tip-in + slight stumble, accel enrich wrong?-accelenrichwizard5_7_132_zps2278f4a1.jpg  
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File Type: msl 2013-05-07_20.40.28.msl (294.3 KB, 51 views)
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Old 05-07-2013, 10:41 PM   #31
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mapdot is filtered out. you just need fix that and tune.

Last edited by Braineack; 05-07-2013 at 11:32 PM.
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Old 05-07-2013, 10:51 PM   #32
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Hmm, you're right. I tried changing more things around to see what effect they had..
so,
Read somewhere to put it to 100% TPSdot since I have a vTPS... So it's basically turned off now anyway.

Tubetune? I was attempting to tune AE using the little line graph display in the wizard.
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Old 05-08-2013, 09:08 PM   #33
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So lots of AE as you can see, and it appears to be functioning properly with pulsewidth increasing with TPSdot... But still these lean spikes? The spike is on the down thrust of the gas pedal, not after releasing it.
-injector dead time issue?
-somehow tune AE to add more fuel initially but then less, or change taper?
-possible one of my injectors is slow or not flowing properly?

Braineack, since I have a vTPS, is it worth still bothering with the MAPdot AE? I had read, I think on DIYautotune, to just set TPSdot to 100% if you are using a real tps.
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Old 05-08-2013, 09:35 PM   #34
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Trying to tune AE by blipping throttle on idle is counter productive. If you manage to get it right, it will be way too rich in regular driving. Instead, try to get it right first by driving around at a usual rpm (like 3000) and start setting up AE for slow throttle inputs and advance towards quicker changes once you get the slow ones right.

Do not blip, instead push the throttle to a new position and hold. If you lift, you cannot see how the situation returns to normal. Usually lifting causes rich condition. I've got best results using 0.1s accel time and increasing PV so that the extra fuel comes when it's needed, not after the map sensor has sensed the change. Other than that, there's pretty much nothing you can do about it (apart from using EAE).

Once you get your AE working in normal conditions, move on to setting up for good response from idle. Do not touch the AE tables. Instead, follow the pointer on your VE table when you launch. It goes straight up, then starts falling to the right. You want to increase fuel in the cells right above your idle. After all, you only hit combinations like 50kpa, 850rpm when you are freerevving / launching.

Ps. you prolly want to view AFR and AFR Target 1 lines in a single graph (and set their axis min and max values the same) so that you can constantly see how much off you are from your target.
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Old 05-09-2013, 02:26 PM   #35
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Hi Ode,

I think I had followed one of your posts from anther thread where you described something similar... Thank you, this is what I've done with my VE table. Also, I see what you mean with hitting the throttle and holding it, rather than blipping it.. Will try tuning that way next.

My issue is that no matter how much fuel I add via the VE table, MAPdot AE, and/or TPSdot AE, I still get that funny lean spike on the AFR which is accompanied by a slight stumble/hesitation. Above 1500 rpm or so it seems to go away. So I'm still wondering, is this some other issue/setting that is wrong?

cheers
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Old 05-16-2013, 11:56 AM   #36
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Does anyone else do what Ode recommends with the VE table?

I leaned the AE back out to where it was previous, as it wasn't helping with that lean spike on throttle tip-in.

Also played with the Lag factors under general settings, reduced the filtering a bit. Bumped TPS lag from 85 to 100, and rpm from 50 to 85. Effects were negligible as far as I could tell... The lean spike is still present, although not quite always.

Went back thru and checked vacuum lines, all look good, and no kinks or splits. Timing table is similar to what everyone else is running. Injectors were used units when I installed them, considering pulling them and sending them out for cleaning/flow testing next.
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Old 04-27-2014, 02:58 PM   #37
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Well, a year later and car has run excellent aside from this lean condition on low rpm throttle input. Never did get this resolved.
Any other thoughts? AE has been fooled around with quite a bit, but even dousing the cylinders w/ gas it seems to go lean that split second... Is this just normal? Anything else to mess with?

Fuel and ignition systems are in perfect repair, no issues there.
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Old 04-27-2014, 03:13 PM   #38
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Basic MS2 IIRC?
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Old 04-27-2014, 04:04 PM   #39
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Hi Rev - yes, exactly!

This was a thread I was also reading prior, but never understood if the car needed more/less AE, needed the VE table modified as Ode suggests, or some other issue...
https://www.miataturbo.net/megasquir...ettings-67485/

Edit:
Fooled around with this more just now, and tried SJP0tato's settings, which had much much much more fuel being added (see post #10). These settings seemed to more or less cure the stumble at idle, only occasionally there is a little hiccup with it going lean. But, now I actually get a rich stumble when I stab the gas while driving, at higher rpms. I understand the curve is based on rate of tps change, and adds pulsewidth. Is there a way to decrease the AE with higher rpms? Or just the on/off rpms in the AE settings menu? I have the low threshold @ 800rpm and high threshold @ 5000rpm. I tried lowering the high threshold down, but then ended up having a lean spike there on throttle tip-in, since there was no AE being added...

Last edited by sbcrx007; 04-27-2014 at 05:38 PM. Reason: forgot link
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Old 04-27-2014, 05:40 PM   #40
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Try the latest beta firmware, 3.3.2 beta 7. It has solved any throttle response issues I've had.
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