RMA'd the LC1 - Considering AEM UEGO - Page 2 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


MEGAsquirt A place to collectively sort out this megasquirt gizmo

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 04-07-2008, 12:23 PM   #21
Boost Pope
iTrader: (8)
 
Joe Perez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Chicago (Over two miles from Wrigley Field. Fuck the Cubs. Fuck them in their smarmy goat-hole.)
Posts: 26,317
Total Cats: 1,914
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sotaku
Sadly I shipped the bung off with the LC1 to Innovate so I'll have to wait for that one to come back before I attempt mangling the thing with JB Weld or worse, complete noob welding skills. Ah well.
Find an independent muffler shop in your area. Not one of the chain stores such as Midas, but a simple mom-and-pop sort of place like "Bob's Muffler". Bring your downpipe in to them (off the car) with the location for the bung marked. Generally, at this sort of shop they will be glad to provide you with a bung and install it for very little money. When I bought my Tony pipe a while back, I had just such a local shop install three bungs (NB, WB, and EGT) for about $25- I supplied the 1/8" EGT bung and one of the two O2 bungs and pre-drilled the holes for those two, they supplied the other O2 bung and drilled a hole for it in the location I marked with a sharpie.

edit:

Here's a picture of the WBO2 bung on my downpipe. It's an odd perspective, but this is a few inches upstream of the cat. Now pictured is how the cable is routed. The connection point where the sensor cable plugs into the gauge cable is affixed with tie-wraps to a point on the top of the transmission. The cable then goes up the shifter boot and to the gauge, which is in one of the center eyeball vents.

Joe Perez is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2008, 12:29 PM   #22
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (5)
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Duluth, GA 30097
Posts: 798
Total Cats: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sotaku View Post
This is some excellent information. When I get mine back I think I'll try doing this and see how I fair. Thanks a ton for chiming in.

I guess I hadn't thought of it, I could have called you guys when I had problems since I bought it from you, eh? Doh! Now I know.

From all of the replies so far I'm thinking I just had my install jacked on the LC-1. I'm going to give it another go when it comes back before writing it off. It was just unbelievably frustrating to have no trust in such an important piece of equipment.
We're definitely here for you man-- the key info on the install is above, and we can help with the config info when getting it talking to the MS if needed also (that's in our FAQ as well). I know how frustrating it can be when things don't work right, and a wideband is something you need to be able to trust if you're tuning with it. That's for sure. But I'm confident in the Innovate line -- properly installed and setup I've found them to be very solid.

Anything we can do just let us know...
FoundSoul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2008, 12:33 PM   #23
Junior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 464
Total Cats: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
Find an independent muffler shop in your area. Not one of the chain stores such as Midas, but a simple mom-and-pop sort of place like "Bob's Muffler". Bring your downpipe in to them (off the car) with the location for the bung marked. Generally, at this sort of shop they will be glad to provide you with a bung and install it for very little money. When I bought my Tony pipe a while back, I had just such a local shop install three bungs (NB, WB, and EGT) for about $25- I supplied the 1/8" EGT bung and one of the two O2 bungs and pre-drilled the holes for those two, they supplied the other O2 bung and drilled a hole for it in the location I marked with a sharpie.

edit:

Here's a picture of the WBO2 bung on my downpipe. It's an odd perspective, but this is a few inches upstream of the cat. Now pictured is how the cable is routed. The connection point where the sensor cable plugs into the gauge cable is affixed with tie-wraps to a point on the top of the transmission. The cable then goes up the shifter boot and to the gauge, which is in one of the center eyeball vents.

I can't recall the size but you can find nuts the correct size and thread pitch to use as O2 bungs at a hardware store. I used to get them at ACE for about .75 cents a pop.
PAT! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2008, 12:50 PM   #24
Elite Member
iTrader: (9)
 
Saml01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: NYC
Posts: 5,730
Total Cats: 2
Default

I agree with everything that Foundsoul is saying, I had constant LC1 problems to the point where I wanted to burn it and get an AEM. But after a proper installation, with a proper +12v and a proper ground, all problems disappeared and it has been trouble free ever since.

Its extremely picky to power and ground. You dont need fat grounds, or fat power for it, just has to be tapped at the right places.
Saml01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2008, 12:50 PM   #25
Boost Pope
iTrader: (8)
 
Joe Perez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Chicago (Over two miles from Wrigley Field. Fuck the Cubs. Fuck them in their smarmy goat-hole.)
Posts: 26,317
Total Cats: 1,914
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PAT! View Post
I can't recall the size but you can find nuts the correct size and thread pitch to use as O2 bungs at a hardware store.
M18 x 1.5
Joe Perez is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2008, 12:57 PM   #26
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (5)
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Duluth, GA 30097
Posts: 798
Total Cats: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saml01 View Post
I agree with everything that Foundsoul is saying, I had constant LC1 problems to the point where I wanted to burn it and get an AEM. But after a proper installation, with a proper +12v and a proper ground, all problems disappeared and it has been trouble free ever since.

Its extremely picky to power and ground. You dont need fat grounds, or fat power for it, just has to be tapped at the right places.
I may have overstated with the word 'fat' when referring to grounding, I think I used an 18-20ga wire and that's plenty. Same for 12v. Location, Location, Location .
FoundSoul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2008, 01:20 PM   #27
Elite Member
iTrader: (9)
 
Saml01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: NYC
Posts: 5,730
Total Cats: 2
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FoundSoul View Post
I may have overstated with the word 'fat' when referring to grounding, I think I used an 18-20ga wire and that's plenty. Same for 12v. Location, Location, Location .
I might as well just type it again, in case someone finds this thread and is having LC1 problems.

The power has to be tapped off a switched 12v, specifically one that is hot in run and crank, not one that turns on and off like radio and the blue plug under the hood when transitioning between run and crank(on off on causes errors). It also has to be a clean power source that means either the MAF, ECU or etc. As for the ground. All of its grounds have to be grounded to a single point, that includes a Megasquirt and Gauge ground and that has to be then grounded to the engine.

Once I made all these things true, all problems went away. The only time I had to perform a free air calibration in like 3 months was after I changed where the gauge got its power. Yea, that through it off too. After the calibration, again no problems ever.
Saml01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2008, 01:31 PM   #28
Elite Member
iTrader: (13)
 
cjernigan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 8,147
Total Cats: 6
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
M18 x 1.5
That info is priceless.
cjernigan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2008, 02:48 PM   #29
Senior Member
iTrader: (7)
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Southern Indiana
Posts: 1,371
Total Cats: -1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saml01 View Post
I might as well just type it again, in case someone finds this thread and is having LC1 problems.

The power has to be tapped off a switched 12v, specifically one that is hot in run and crank, not one that turns on and off like radio and the blue plug under the hood when transitioning between run and crank(on off on causes errors). It also has to be a clean power source that means either the MAF, ECU or etc. As for the ground. All of its grounds have to be grounded to a single point, that includes a Megasquirt and Gauge ground and that has to be then grounded to the engine..
So, what would you recommend for a 12v? I am using the blue clip right now...
wes65 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2008, 03:09 PM   #30
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (5)
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Duluth, GA 30097
Posts: 798
Total Cats: 0
Default

I like the fuel pump relay-- easily tapped on the bottom of the fuse box at the pass side of the engine compartment. Just do it cleanly...
FoundSoul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2008, 03:37 PM   #31
Elite Member
iTrader: (14)
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Edmonton, AB
Posts: 4,921
Total Cats: 0
Default

Jerry,

Where do you locate the LC-1? I have mine in the center console and run the cable for the 02 sensor through the shifter hole. I picked up the power and ground from the same place I used for my link. I spliced off the main ECU harness.

Can you suggest a better place?
jayc72 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2008, 03:45 PM   #32
Ben
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (33)
 
Ben's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: atlanta-ish
Posts: 12,689
Total Cats: 99
Default

After being exposed to both the AEM and Innovate products, IMO Innovate simply kicks the snot out of the AEM. The Innovate simply does everything better and is more useful. So what if it costs $100 more; it's worth it. (UEGO vs XD/LC package). Going to the UEGO from the LC is a backwards move.
Ben is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2008, 03:48 PM   #33
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,833
Total Cats: 1,786
Default

you guys with all the LC-1 troubles astonish me....
Braineack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2008, 03:53 PM   #34
Ben
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (33)
 
Ben's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: atlanta-ish
Posts: 12,689
Total Cats: 99
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
1: The AEM has only one output, whereas the LC1 has two. This is of absolutely no consequence with a MS.
You say that, but when you run the LC with MS, you get AFR target charts in actual AFR. With the UEGO, the target tables are all in Voltage. Not a problem you say? Well, you'd just need an accurate table that shows AFR vs Voltage out. Problem is, the only tables I could find were just plain wrong.

We tried to re-write the code in MS to switch voltage in favor of AFR, but ******* Vista wouldn't let us save the changes.
Ben is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2008, 04:20 PM   #35
Boost Pope
iTrader: (8)
 
Joe Perez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Chicago (Over two miles from Wrigley Field. Fuck the Cubs. Fuck them in their smarmy goat-hole.)
Posts: 26,317
Total Cats: 1,914
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben View Post
You say that, but when you run the LC with MS, you get AFR target charts in actual AFR. With the UEGO, the target tables are all in Voltage. Not a problem you say? Well, you'd just need an accurate table that shows AFR vs Voltage out. Problem is, the only tables I could find were just plain wrong.
Interesting. My AFR target table is set up in AFR units, and it seems to be working pretty well. Maybe a .1 or .2 discrepancy, it's hard to be sure as it's definitely within the noise envelope of normal AFR fluctuation. I remember that there was a tweak I had to make, I believe it was in one of the INI files (msns-extra.ini I think?), but there was definitely no changing of the core MS code.

The howto was somewhere in this forum. Lemme search around and see if I can find it...

edit Here we are. It was a change to both msns-extra.ini and my MSQ file.

The local version: https://www.miataturbo.net/forum/sho...0&postcount=12

and the original inspiration: http://forums.plastikracing.net/view...?p=52097#52097
Joe Perez is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2008, 04:21 PM   #36
Elite Member
iTrader: (9)
 
Saml01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: NYC
Posts: 5,730
Total Cats: 2
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wes65 View Post
So, what would you recommend for a 12v? I am using the blue clip right now...
MAF or ECU

Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
you guys with all the LC-1 troubles astonish me....
Cmon, have a little sympathy. Its easy when **** works right from the first time, but when it doesnt you start to wonder wtf is going. You would never suspect something simple as power and ground to be the culprit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jayc72 View Post
Jerry,

Where do you locate the LC-1? I have mine in the center console and run the cable for the 02 sensor through the shifter hole. I picked up the power and ground from the same place I used for my link. I spliced off the main ECU harness.

Can you suggest a better place?
Thats where I have mine now. Such an awesome fit too. As for power, at the ECU. Grounded to one of the bolts on the ECU bracket with a ground from the MS and a ground line running back to the engine.
Saml01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2008, 04:24 PM   #37
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,833
Total Cats: 1,786
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saml01 View Post
Cmon, have a little sympathy. Its easy when **** works right from the first time, but when it doesnt you start to wonder wtf is going. You would never suspect something simple as power and ground to be the culprit.
not when you read the manual and see this:

2.3 Electrical Grounding Concerns

The electrical environment inside a car provides unique challenges, combining high voltages and currents, low-voltage signals, convoluted signal paths, and variable conditions (i.e., fans turning on and off, or starter cranking).

When using precision electronics, it is important for ALL electronics to share a common ground. Remember that “Ground” is more than just the return path for any circuit- it is also the reference against which any voltage is measured.

Since it is not always practical to ground every device to the exact same location, here are some tips on grounding:

1. The BEST grounding scheme is all grounds (i.e., ECU, Gauges, LC1 heater, LC1 system, etc.) SOLDERED into a single lug and bolted to the engine block.

2. The next best is all grounds attached to the same source, as close as possible, but on separate lugs. This is because even the corrosion between lugs can create ground offset and noise. Incidentally, this is why many ECUs have separate ground wires for injectors vs. ECU system ground- separating high voltages and low voltages reduces noise.

3. Grounding to the engine block is usually better than grounding to the frame.

4. Grounding a gauge to the radio is usually bad- ground offset can vary with volume.

5. Grounding to an ECU housing is generally not optimal- housings are strapped to the frame for shielding, but not necessarily grounded.

6. One of the WORST things to do is to ground most of your electronics to one place (i.e. the engine block), but ground one device somewhere else (i.e., the frame). Not only can this result in ground offsets, it can also create a “path of least resistance” for high currents THROUGH a low-current device. This can result in melted wires and vaporized diodes, when, for example, starter currents flow through gauges.
Braineack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2008, 04:26 PM   #38
Ben
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (33)
 
Ben's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: atlanta-ish
Posts: 12,689
Total Cats: 99
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
The howto was somewhere in this forum. Lemme search around and see if I can find it...

edit Here we are. It was a change to both msns-extra.ini and my MSQ file.

The local version: https://www.miataturbo.net/forum/sho...0&postcount=12

and the original inspiration: http://forums.plastikracing.net/view...?p=52097#52097
We saw that. Vista wouldn't allow us to save the changes to the ini, nor would it allow up to open the msq in notepad. It was frustrating.
Ben is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2008, 04:39 PM   #39
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,833
Total Cats: 1,786
Default

vista wont let you save things in the program files folder....is lame!


copy the files somewhere else, then open them up and save, then copy and paste them over the files you wanna change. that shoudl work.
Braineack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2008, 05:03 PM   #40
Elite Member
iTrader: (14)
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Edmonton, AB
Posts: 4,921
Total Cats: 0
Default

Notepad has a bug in it under Vista (SP1 might fix it?). It doesn't appear to be playing nice with UAC even if you are admin and have access to the file system. It's like Notepad doesn't recognize that you have"authenticated" and ignores the UAC permission. Goofy, but it's Microsoft right?

Fix, turn off UAC until they get their **** together.
jayc72 is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
FS/FT: 03.5 Mazdaspeed Protege leatherface24 Cars for sale/trade 15 10-16-2015 12:35 PM
MS PNP requires reading and following directions??? satisfied MEGAsquirt 141 10-06-2015 11:44 AM
Back to Stock Part Out!! Turbo Parts, MS2 Enhanced 01-05, Suspension, and MOAR! StratoBlue1109 Miata parts for sale/trade 16 10-02-2015 10:39 AM
1996 Turbo Build Goldwar DIY Turbo Discussion 2 09-29-2015 10:20 AM


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:43 PM.