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Old 09-11-2007, 08:47 PM   #1
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Default So off came the megasquirt last night.

Call me a sellout or whatever, but I did not want to put up with it any longer. It will go back on in spring. Probably with boost.

I ran a unmodified MSPNP 94-95 map and it was pretty decent at WOT, everywhere else it was underwhelming.

I have been so busy and have had no time whatsoever for tuning.

Wideband was pulled off as well.

It came out in under 15 min, a PNP harness is a nice thing to have, totally reverted back to stock with the exception of the wires/vac tube remaining hidden so I wouldn't have to pull them nor put them back in in the spring.

I am definatly missing power nearly everywhere in the powerband, it feels much slower, and sounds way worse with the stock intake back on.

I just got sick and tired of dealing with cold startup issues and random quirks with the megasquirt, the autox season is basically over for me, school has started back up, and I am commuting 50+ miles a day.

Never even had time to wire up the COP setup that has been sitting on my desk for months now. It will be wired up over the winter and put on. With sequential spark, not wasted.

It was a good couple months, did get a chance to play around with it some, but none of the cool **** like launch control never made it on.

Oh well, it's not like my map will be very useful anyways when the turbo setup goes on.

The Formula SAE team at school is running megasquirt so I will still get a chance to play around with it over the winter.
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Old 09-11-2007, 08:52 PM   #2
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i got fed up with it too...and attempted to take it out, now my car wont start on stock ecu's but runs fine with the squirt, see my post if you dont mind and see if you can see any problems...
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Old 09-11-2007, 08:54 PM   #3
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I'm sure Jerry could have helped you out as far as cold start goes. My car fires up every time and the off-boost driveability is just like OEM, but I did have it tuned. Hopefully we'll see you back in the spring.
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Old 09-11-2007, 08:58 PM   #4
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I'm sure Jerry could have helped you out as far as cold start goes. My car fires up every time and the off-boost driveability is just like OEM, but I did have it tuned. Hopefully we'll see you back in the spring.
I am not going to bother Jerry, if I am too busy to even touch settings myself.

I am not going anywhere, Still will be helping out the noobie's and hassling magna for his ghetto fab installs

The dyno tuning makes all the difference in the world, I just didn't see the point when I am not yet boosted.

I am really happy that all the mods I did have stayed with my goal of being fully revertable to stock with no issues. Fired back up on the first try.
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Old 09-11-2007, 09:05 PM   #5
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I'm sure Jerry could have helped you out as far as cold start goes. My car fires up every time and the off-boost driveability is just like OEM, but I did have it tuned. Hopefully we'll see you back in the spring.
mines goin back on as soon as my computer issues are solved...in a couple weeks, that is if i can get it off before i blow my motor up..
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Old 09-11-2007, 10:00 PM   #6
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Ghetto fab is not for quiters jo but atleast you have a hot wife to console you GL RDS
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Old 09-12-2007, 01:57 AM   #7
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I guess I`ll jump in....I have almost the same exact issues as with reddroptops 94-97PNP and I too have reverted back to the OEM ECU (was 90-93PNP) everything runs like clockwork now albeit slower.

I`ll be back at it once cooler weather prevails. A/C is a must in SOCAL and getting it to idle with it on has been the biggest problem with my PNP...plus an oscillating idle has made it little fun.

Expecting it to run like OEM out of the box was my expectation but it has not been the case for me despite the excellent support by Jerry. I still believe its a great product and the potential is there for sure but patience and time and knowledge of tuning is not abundant right now due to work load.

Once everything is back again on I hope to get it tuned by those who know how to and on a dyno.
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Old 09-12-2007, 02:04 AM   #8
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So bottom line looks like don't install the squirt until you're ready to dyno tune??
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Old 09-12-2007, 02:20 AM   #9
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The problems people are having are with idle when the A/C is on and a couple other variables such as oscillating idle as you can see. Those variables have nothing to do with dyno tuning. The only thing you'll be tuning on the dyno is ignition and fuel. The fuel can be spruced up with some road tuning in the mean time though, it should be very drivable with some road tuning using the wideband.
The biggest problem is many people are expecting the MSPNP to be a plug-it-in and go unit that they don't have to adjust at all. That isn't the case for any standalone especially one that just came out in the last 6 months or so.
The guys that work with Jerry and still have problems I guess are just having a hard time and don't have time to dedicate to the cause.
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Old 09-12-2007, 02:21 AM   #10
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well your gonna have to mess with idle control settings and street tune the fuel map with a wideband ... that has gotten me some pretty good results, however im still working on getting idle perfect.
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Old 09-12-2007, 02:27 AM   #11
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Soo glad i'm wired parallel, screw idle settings.
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Old 09-12-2007, 02:35 AM   #12
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thanks cj.
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Old 09-12-2007, 02:37 AM   #13
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Soo glad i'm wired parallel, screw idle settings.
Ditto
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Old 09-12-2007, 04:11 AM   #14
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I'm running the straight off-the-shelf idle settings for the 029y firmware that Jerry loaded on my car in early July and my car idles like a ******' rock, even with 460cc injectors. I'm almost certain he didn't fiddle with my idle settings at all; he just did the fuel and spark tuning on the dyno.
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Old 09-12-2007, 09:42 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by cjernigan View Post
The problems people are having are with idle when the A/C is on and a couple other variables such as oscillating idle as you can see. Those variables have nothing to do with dyno tuning. The only thing you'll be tuning on the dyno is ignition and fuel. The fuel can be spruced up with some road tuning in the mean time though, it should be very drivable with some road tuning using the wideband.
The biggest problem is many people are expecting the MSPNP to be a plug-it-in and go unit that they don't have to adjust at all. That isn't the case for any standalone especially one that just came out in the last 6 months or so.
The guys that work with Jerry and still have problems I guess are just having a hard time and don't have time to dedicate to the cause.
1. No A/C

2. Yep, But It was unreasonable to expect the unit to work perfectly straight out of the box, considering I didn't even buy the MSPNP and just asked Jerry to use his map on my homebrew unit.

I am very happy with the megasquirt. It could use more outputs, but other then that it is pretty good.
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Old 09-12-2007, 09:49 AM   #16
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Depending on the situation, the fuel and spark maps will make a big difference in idle quality and the idle control code's ability to properly manage the idle. For instance... in at least one user's case in this thread he's idling at much less vacuum than what we tuned the base map to idle at (base on our stock car), that's either due to mods/motor or environment, since he idling in a part of the table that isn't tuned to the proper AFR to idle properly, and doesn't have a wideband installed to tune it properly to idle there, it's not at the right AFR and struggling. The idle control code is trying to compensate when it sees the idle drop off but obviously that's not what it's designed to do. It can open/close the idle valve, but not add fuel. That has to be right in the tables.

The two work together, not independently.

I do have some updated settings for the MM9495 users that help-- I'll be adding those to an updated base map soon, and anyone that wants could copy over just these idle related settings. In all testing they have completely eliminated oscillation -- if your tables are right. I drove the car in significant stop-n-go traffic the other night, and I did have one stall while I had the A/C on, so I was further tweaking the dashpot settings to see if I can improve on that. It's a balancing act though-- tighten them up too much (make it react too fast) and you introduce oscillation, loosen it too much and it doesn't respond fast enough to make people happy.

So with that said I may release screenshots of the best two configurations I've found, and you may have a bit of tuning to do on a per car basis, but we'll equip you to do so. I may even try and do a little video to illustrate what settings effect what behavior, and how to correct for certain things.

Bottom line though-- and I see this all the time. Trying to tune ANYTHING on a standalone before the tables are dialed in is fruitless. Most everything else relies on the base tables being right, you'll chase your tail forever until the base tables are right.
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Old 09-12-2007, 11:06 AM   #17
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I do have some updated settings for the MM9495 users that help-- I'll be adding those to an updated base map soon, and anyone that wants could copy over just these idle related settings. In all testing they have completely eliminated oscillation -- if your tables are right. I drove the car in significant stop-n-go traffic the other night, and I did have one stall while I had the A/C on, so I was further tweaking the dashpot settings to see if I can improve on that. It's a balancing act though-- tighten them up too much (make it react too fast) and you introduce oscillation, loosen it too much and it doesn't respond fast enough to make people happy.
I'd love to have a gander at those Jerry.... Have you tried one of your PnP machines on a supercharged car yet? I gave up on controlling the idle after installing the charger as I really don't have a clue about tuning the idle settings, everything I did seemed to make it worse! I've a feeling the extra load the charger adds to the engine at idle makes it that much more difficult.
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Old 09-12-2007, 11:24 AM   #18
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Stan Mitchem is running the MM9495 locally, with an SC, and it's been running great for him-- he's on the boards and may chime in. I did send him the updated idle settings and he's been testing them with good results. They were an improvement over the original base map for him as well.

I'll get something posted asap...
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Old 09-12-2007, 11:57 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by FoundSoul View Post
Stan Mitchem is running the MM9495 locally, with an SC, and it's been running great for him-- he's on the boards and may chime in. I did send him the updated idle settings and he's been testing them with good results. They were an improvement over the original base map for him as well.

I'll get something posted asap...
that'd be cool thanks Jerry,

Big ask tho, if you get a spare half hour could you document how to tune your idle? that'd be a massive help to lots of people I think?

For an example I'm not sure how the relationship between the idle set screw and the MS settings works
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Old 09-12-2007, 12:02 PM   #20
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It might not happen this week or next as I'm tying up loose ends to be out of town all next week, but I'll definitely make that happen.


Here's the latest MSPNP MM9495 map info, along with the settings I changed for idle control:

https://www.miataturbo.net/showthrea...962#post149962
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