stalling and VE table question - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


MEGAsquirt A place to collectively sort out this megasquirt gizmo

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 05-26-2012, 08:47 PM   #1
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Chesterfield, VA
Posts: 252
Total Cats: 2
Default stalling and VE table question

For the last week I've let VE Analyze Live work on my VE table. Now sometimes at idle, after driving, in hot weather, the car stalls. VEAL keeps wanting to jack the VE up sky-high in the low RPM/low MAP area. See attached image.

Thoughts? Suggestions?
Attached Thumbnails
stalling and VE table question-veal.png   stalling and VE table question-afr.png   stalling and VE table question-graph.png  

Last edited by travisb; 05-27-2012 at 07:14 PM.
travisb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2012, 11:57 AM   #2
I'm Miserable!
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: albany, ga
Posts: 1,869
Total Cats: 3
Default

Upload the tune and a data log of it happening.
Use of proper injector dead times will help with this issue as well.
Techsalvager is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2012, 12:05 PM   #3
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,854
Total Cats: 1,788
Default

lol at your VE table at idle.

the issue is your AIT-density based corrections, or lack there of. Adjusting the dead times will not solve the issue of the ideal gas law code pulling a lot of fuel when the AITs get hotter than 80F causing really lean idle and overcompensating with that horrible fuel map.
Braineack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2012, 12:09 PM   #4
I'm Miserable!
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: albany, ga
Posts: 1,869
Total Cats: 3
Default

tune and datalog is needed to make sure of the issue, I'm pretty sure its the ideal gas law issuel.
But it will help out on issues regarding the fuel injection being more steady at varying loads\temps\etc
Techsalvager is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2012, 12:13 PM   #5
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Chesterfield, VA
Posts: 252
Total Cats: 2
Default

Thanks.
I attached the tune and log from Saturday when it cut out several times.
I also attached the tune and log from this morning. I had to trim the log to upload. The revs dipped some this morning, but it did not cut off. It wasn't too hot out yet.
Attached Files
File Type: msq 2012-05-29_10.58.45.msq (40.3 KB, 110 views)
File Type: msl 2012-05-26_16.19.34.msl (1.92 MB, 81 views)
File Type: msq 2012-05-26_16.54.31.msq (40.3 KB, 77 views)
File Type: msl 2012-05-29_07.31.25 - Copy.msl (1.44 MB, 63 views)
travisb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2012, 12:17 PM   #6
I'm Miserable!
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: albany, ga
Posts: 1,869
Total Cats: 3
Default

gair is all over the place, where is your IAT sensor at?
Also not sure how ms1 works in their corrections but I'd look at turning the gair effect on fueling down if possible.
Techsalvager is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2012, 12:18 PM   #7
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,854
Total Cats: 1,788
Default

yeah, look at your Gair log on 2012-05-26_16.19.34.msl, in places it's hitting 142%....so you're adding 42% more fuel at a given air temperature.

and you're tuning against this causing you to have horriblly awful VE% numbers in your table.

you need to tune the clt-based air density table curve in such a manner that you negate any code trying to add/subtract fuel. I can't remember what the table value that work for msI are, I'd have to look for them. But your current table is WAYYYYYYYYYYYY too agressive and causing you to dump in and acutally pull out too much at a given air temp. So turn on the Gair gauge on your virtual dash and start manipulating the curve so it stays at 100% all of the time.


youre going to to have to retune your fuel map afterwards. I'd acutally move your first 4 table values back to the 35VE% area to match the rest of your table and go from there.
Braineack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2012, 12:36 PM   #8
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Chesterfield, VA
Posts: 252
Total Cats: 2
Default

Thanks. See attached image. Is this the table you're referring too? How should it be set?

The IAT after the IC, behind the radiator.
Attached Thumbnails
stalling and VE table question-clt_correct_air_density.png  
travisb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2012, 12:40 PM   #9
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,854
Total Cats: 1,788
Default

yes. and i told you how to set it.


behind the radiator lends the ait to get heat soaked once the car is off and at idle.
Braineack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2012, 08:22 PM   #10
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Chesterfield, VA
Posts: 252
Total Cats: 2
Default

I've been studying this topic some more, but where is the gair gauge so I can watch the values in real time?
travisb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2012, 11:25 PM   #11
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,854
Total Cats: 1,788
Default

Right click any gauge on the dahsboard to change it
Braineack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2012, 11:44 PM   #12
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Chesterfield, VA
Posts: 252
Total Cats: 2
Default

Yes, I tried that. I did not see anything similar to "gair".
travisb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2012, 11:28 AM   #13
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Chesterfield, VA
Posts: 252
Total Cats: 2
Default

Attached is a screenshot showing the available gauges that I see...
Attached Thumbnails
stalling and VE table question-gauges.jpg  
travisb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2012, 11:34 AM   #14
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,854
Total Cats: 1,788
Default

oh msI. use the gammae gauge. it includes ALL enrichments, so you'll have to wait until ASE and warmup are over.
Braineack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2012, 05:09 PM   #15
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Chesterfield, VA
Posts: 252
Total Cats: 2
Default

Ok, I added the Gamma Enrichment gauge and tuned the Coolant Related Air Density so that the G E was around 100%. I couldn't do the whole table because it is already 85 degrees out.

Attached is a screenshot of my Coolant table and the gauge too, just in case any other MS1 users want to see the gauge.

When it was at 100% I let VEAL take over and update VE and my AFR started coming into a better range.

Does my coolant table look like I'm doing the right thing??? What kind of temperature range should I cover? It seems better...
Attached Thumbnails
stalling and VE table question-gamma_enrichment.png   stalling and VE table question-coolant.jpg  
travisb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2012, 05:38 PM   #16
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,854
Total Cats: 1,788
Default

your table is going backwards. correction should be at 100% around 80F intake temps, and till need to increase as the AITs increase.
Braineack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2012, 09:21 AM   #17
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Chesterfield, VA
Posts: 252
Total Cats: 2
Default

Thanks, I've updated my table. See attached. Is 80-140 degrees an appropriate target for this table?

I have another question. I have it set to start reducing correction at 2000rpm and end correction at 3000.

This morning when I was on the highway at 3500-4000 rpm the GAir was at 96% or so. Since correction should have already stopped, do I need to worry about trying to get that to 100? Would that be through adjusting the VE table to narrow it in?
Attached Thumbnails
stalling and VE table question-coolant2.png  
travisb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2012, 08:59 AM   #18
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Chesterfield, VA
Posts: 252
Total Cats: 2
Default

Thanks Brain. I have Gair somewhat under control. It was between 98-101% this morning commute. The VE table is starting to smooth out and AFR is getting much more steady.

Can you take a look at the attached picture? It is a scatter graph from this morning showing AFR vs MAP vs Gair.

I have a few (dark blue) dots above 100MAP and 14 AFR. Do I need to worry about those few?

Also, under low MAP, usually while decelerating I hit very high AFR. 21.7 or whatever the max on the scale is. Is that a concern? I do have over run at >2k rpm, <20kpa.
Attached Thumbnails
stalling and VE table question-scatter.png  
travisb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2012, 09:04 AM   #19
Tour de Franzia
iTrader: (6)
 
hustler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
Posts: 29,114
Total Cats: 351
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
lol at your VE table at idle.

the issue is your AIT-density based corrections, or lack there of. Adjusting the dead times will not solve the issue of the ideal gas law code pulling a lot of fuel when the AITs get hotter than 80F causing really lean idle and overcompensating with that horrible fuel map.
+1, I'm saving this ----.

good job getting your stuff fixed.
hustler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2012, 09:10 AM   #20
Tour de Franzia
iTrader: (6)
 
hustler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
Posts: 29,114
Total Cats: 351
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by travisb View Post
Also, under low MAP, usually while decelerating I hit very high AFR. 21.7 or whatever the max on the scale is. Is that a concern? I do have over run at >2k rpm, <20kpa.
Show us the log.
hustler is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Raleigh: Fiberglass headlight scope, 1.6L ECU, AFM, Hardtop latches, more bigmackloud Miata parts for sale/trade 13 09-22-2017 01:34 PM
15x10 - 15x11 6UL @ 949 Racing emilio700 Wheels and Tires 151 06-02-2017 03:36 PM
1994 Spec Miata Race Car SM/SM2/SSM For Sale Quinn Cars for sale/trade 6 10-23-2016 08:58 AM
Low oil pressure after 1.8 swap and new turbo setup JesseTheNoob DIY Turbo Discussion 15 09-30-2015 03:44 PM
NA Seat Sliders and Seat Belt Receivers skipstr Miata parts for sale/trade 2 09-28-2015 11:53 PM


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:59 PM.